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  #3441  
Old 16.02.2017, 08:37 PM
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ISIS set off bomb in Pakistan that kills "at least" 43 men, 9 women and 20 children Sufi Muslims. Pakistan has seen huge death tolls multiple times in the past few years.

Including this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_P...chool_massacre which I had forgotten.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/0...144747128.html

http://www.firstpost.com/world/amjad...h-2851862.html Why Sufi's are targeted.

Didn't America fund taliban through their rise?. Didn't Pakistan do even more for other Jihadis?.

Morale of the story, do not trust Islamist's as there are so many quarreling factions willing to kill other Muslims, it will come back to you.

And how long before other Islamic countries properly take a stand?. The West may have created the environment for ISIS to begin, but they can't end it.

Last edited by RockyBalboa; 16.02.2017 at 08:41 PM.
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  #3442  
Old 16.02.2017, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RockyBalboa View Post
Didn't America fund taliban through their rise?. Didn't Pakistan do even more for other Jihadis?.

Morale of the story, do not trust Islamist's as there are so many quarreling factions willing to kill other Muslims, it will come back to you.
I think that's a little simplistic.

Much like a shooting war, the Cold War had a lot of unfortunate consequences. One of which was the proxy wars with which the USA and the USSR attempted to lacerate each other.

The USA funded the Afghan mujahideen prior to and during Soviet involvement in Afghanistan. Not just the Afghans either. The border with Pakistan is so long and porous that a lot of support went to militants in Pakistan who could sustain the fighting from secure bases there. Perversely, or predictably, however you want to see it, this exact tactic proved to be a thorn in the side of coalition forces when they ousted the Taliban.

Nicaragua, El Salvador, Angola, all the way back to Korea.. the suffering and instability caused by the Cold War is immense. You don't have to look far in the news to see that the consequences in Korea are still simmering away.

If you are going to focus on Islam, you need to observe that is is not just the West. Russia has been fighting the Chechens for over 200 years.

Private US support has funded terrorists closer to home than the Taliban. Noraid and Clan na Gael raised funds in the USA to finance IRA weapon purchases.

I think, ultimately, it's a question of perspective. The Twin Towers were an aberration, caused by (with hindsight) unbelievably lax security. Since 2010 there have been 118 deaths attributed to terrorism in the USA. Not all of these are attributable to Islamists. It's sad and unfortunate, but 118 deaths in 6 years is not any sort of war.

Focusing on terrorism is like complaining about the mosquitoes in a swamp. What you should be worried about are the alligators. They don't bite as often as the mosquitoes, but when they do the damage is on a completely different scale.

The real threats to the West are North Korea, Chinese ambitions in the South China Sea and Russia. All unfortunately made worse by the buffoon in the White House.

Incidentally, just as there are casualties from doing to little, there can be casualties from doing too much. The world responded to 9/11 by turning aircraft cabins into fortresses. This appears to have proved to be a double edged sword in a couple of cases.
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  #3443  
Old 17.02.2017, 11:06 AM
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I think that's a little simplistic.

Much like a shooting war, the Cold War had a lot of unfortunate consequences. One of which was the proxy wars with which the USA and the USSR attempted to lacerate each other.

The USA funded the Afghan mujahideen prior to and during Soviet involvement in Afghanistan. Not just the Afghans either. The border with Pakistan is so long and porous that a lot of support went to militants in Pakistan who could sustain the fighting from secure bases there. Perversely, or predictably, however you want to see it, this exact tactic proved to be a thorn in the side of coalition forces when they ousted the Taliban.

Nicaragua, El Salvador, Angola, all the way back to Korea.. the suffering and instability caused by the Cold War is immense. You don't have to look far in the news to see that the consequences in Korea are still simmering away.

If you are going to focus on Islam, you need to observe that is is not just the West. Russia has been fighting the Chechens for over 200 years.

Private US support has funded terrorists closer to home than the Taliban. Noraid and Clan na Gael raised funds in the USA to finance IRA weapon purchases.

I think, ultimately, it's a question of perspective. The Twin Towers were an aberration, caused by (with hindsight) unbelievably lax security. Since 2010 there have been 118 deaths attributed to terrorism in the USA. Not all of these are attributable to Islamists. It's sad and unfortunate, but 118 deaths in 6 years is not any sort of war.

Focusing on terrorism is like complaining about the mosquitoes in a swamp. What you should be worried about are the alligators. They don't bite as often as the mosquitoes, but when they do the damage is on a completely different scale.

The real threats to the West are North Korea, Chinese ambitions in the South China Sea and Russia. All unfortunately made worse by the buffoon in the White House.

Incidentally, just as there are casualties from doing to little, there can be casualties from doing too much. The world responded to 9/11 by turning aircraft cabins into fortresses. This appears to have proved to be a double edged sword in a couple of cases.
Interesting. The more I read about history in general the more I realise my entire outlook is simplistic. I didn't even know Germany's invasion of Poland was a joint effort until recently....School curriculum!!

I think I am beginning to understand something then I go on:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria...ort=top&t=week

I thought about creating a comment on the attack because Muslims clearly have been hit hardest by ISIS. People obsession of totally banning Muslims is an example of why they think they are worth more. Then I kind of got lost in the meaning and went down the road of blaming Islamic governments.

After reading a small amount on the middle east, people really don't seem to care about the ethical side of who they back at any one time. The common man and women in the UK seem to have these expectations of the West doing what is morally correct, still, even after recent wars.

Russia and America have chopped and changed allegiances, killing heads of state, backing coups and rebellions for the past hundreds years. Many have been Muslim but thinking about it I imagine that didn't matter whatsoever to either of them if they served a purpose. I read a book that went into Russia and American allies out of Iraq, Iran and Afghan in the 80's and 90's. You'd have thought they were all a load of toddlers with how often they made and broke friendships.

We think they have learned their lesson. Slot American and Western funding of Syrian rebels, in cahoots with the Saudis/Gulf nations, in to the failed category. I say failed but they did basically destroyed Syria so I imagine they'll class that as a job well done. History will decide whether the funding was questionable or not, modern media and people can't be bothered. And we are still waiting for details of this genocide that occurred in Aleppo. It has gone very quiet on that matter.

The UN accused the Syrian rebels of using chemical weapons, targeting civilians and war crimes - Yet Western media still used them as sources for information on the conflict. Absolutely comical.

Ir read that the times of Western Europe prospering are over and that Asia is soon to fly ahead due to mineral wealth, locality, booming economies and populations etc. Is China a threat?. Maybe to the American dominance.

Last edited by RockyBalboa; 17.02.2017 at 11:19 AM.
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  #3444  
Old 17.02.2017, 12:38 PM
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After reading a small amount on the middle east, people really don't seem to care about the ethical side of who they back at any one time. The common man and women in the UK seem to have these expectations of the West doing what is morally correct, still, even after recent wars.
Increasingly, I think they do. Unfortunately, the right thing is not always in your own interests. Maybe it is rarely so.

New Labour announced an ethical foreign policy. Which didn't last long *cough* Iraq War *cough*.

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Russia and America have chopped and changed allegiances, killing heads of state, backing coups and rebellions for the past hundreds years.
I think it's a symptom of power. When the British ruled much of the world, we were not particularly ethical. Not in how we did it and not in how we ruled it. I guess it could have been worse. But that is pretty weak.

When the powerful get the upper hand they are reluctant to relinquish it. That is just as true in international realpolitik as it is in companies, families and individual relationships.

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Ir read that the times of Western Europe prospering are over and that Asia is soon to fly ahead due to mineral wealth, locality, booming economies and populations etc. Is China a threat?. Maybe to the American dominance.
China wants to be treated as a superpower. It does not like being bottled up in the South China Sea and if it cannot recapture Taiwan, what is the point of being a superpower?

Based on their populations and trajectories, China and India should both become much wealthier this century. However, that is just guesswork. India is characterised by severe corruption, ethnic tensions and unresolved border disputes. It's politicians are criminals. That's not even a slur. Being a murderer doesn't ruin your chances of electoral success in India. It improves them. China is a one party state, with it's own corruption problems and unresolved ethnic tensions. It's economic rise has been dramatic, but it is associated with a gargantuan misallocation of resources and weak or absent civil institutions. Like a twenty storey house with five hundred bedrooms that was built in a week, it looks darn impressive. But if you look at the plans and it only has one toilet, no plumbing on even numbered floors and some of the rooms don't have doors, your admiration comes with caveats. You can't project from India or China now to a future where they look like the USA. They could become (or continue to be) highly dysfunctional.
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  #3445  
Old 17.02.2017, 04:03 PM
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Biologists at Harvard U. are working to recreate an approximation to the woolly mammoth by splicing genes into a species of Asian elephant, which has 99.4% of its genes in common with the mammoth. The project will provide the endangered Asian elephants with an ‘alternative future’. But the best part is that it will save the world from global warming!!
How will this happen? The revived mammoths will stomp holes in insulating snow and ice covering frozen Arctic tundra, let in cold air, keep the permafrost frozen and prevent the release of greenhouse gases!
But there’s a much simpler and cheaper way of doing this. All it would take is a UN grant for a team of nutters, who will charge around the tundra in snowmobiles, blasting the insulating layer away with the tank-tracks, letting in cold air and keeping the wilderness frozen.
And the really wonderful thing is that this World-Saving Scam could be up and running as early as next week, given some political will.
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  #3446  
Old 17.02.2017, 04:10 PM
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Biologists at Harvard U. are working to recreate an approximation to the woolly mammoth by splicing genes into a species of Asian elephant, which has 99.4% of its genes in common with the mammoth. The project will provide the endangered Asian elephants with an ‘alternative future’. But the best part is that it will save the world from global warming!!
How will this happen? The revived mammoths will stomp holes in insulating snow and ice covering frozen Arctic tundra, let in cold air, keep the permafrost frozen and prevent the release of greenhouse gases!
But there’s a much simpler and cheaper way of doing this. All it would take is a UN grant for a team of nutters, who will charge around the tundra in snowmobiles, blasting the insulating layer away with the tank-tracks, letting in cold air and keeping the wilderness frozen.
And the really wonderful thing is that this World-Saving Scam could be up and running as early as next week, given some political will.
I think the mammoths will cause less pollution than the petrol-guzzling snowmobiles though. Although the steaming piles of dung (more from the mammoths than the snowmobile riders one would hope) would melt the snow and warm the ground up causing more greenhouse gas release. Needs more study.
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  #3447  
Old 17.02.2017, 06:28 PM
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I think the mammoths will cause less pollution than the petrol-guzzling snowmobiles though. Although the steaming piles of dung (more from the mammoths than the snowmobile riders one would hope) would melt the snow and warm the ground up causing more greenhouse gas release. Needs more study.
I don't think you've thought this one through. The snowmobiles would be electric ones, of course, powered by batteries charged from a vast array of wind turbines.
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  #3448  
Old 17.02.2017, 06:30 PM
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I don't think you've thought this one through. The snowmobiles would be electric ones, of course, powered by batteries charged from a vast array of wind turbines.
True. And then there's the cost and carbon footprint of getting the food there (what do woolly mammoths eat anyway?)
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  #3449  
Old 17.02.2017, 09:12 PM
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True. And then there's the cost and carbon footprint of getting the food there (what do woolly mammoths eat anyway?)

Will Tony Blair ensure we get the right facts in the Mammoth V Solar Powered Snow mobiles debate? Could cause all sorts of bother if we don't!
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  #3450  
Old 17.02.2017, 09:28 PM
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Will Tony Blair ensure we get the right facts in the Mammoth V Solar Powered Snow mobiles debate? Could cause all sorts of bother if we don't!
There's a film franchise in there somewhere. After all, there's only so many shark meets tornado scenarios they can come up with, surely?
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