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  #14111  
Old 23.07.2017, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
maybe by 2026 other current EU members may have also decided to Leave before then if they see the advantages we may have outside of there gang once we can start doing or new deals.Also if we do ever have to apply to rejoin the EU maybe we can get the nice handouts that come to the new members and off course we would have to ditch the pound as all new EU members have to sign up to that currency and all that comes with it which would definetly not be a vote winner.
The above sums up entirely why negotiations with the EU will go very badly. Fundamental lack of understanding about what motivates the other parties to negotiations will not see you get a good result. "Once we can start doing new deals" - trade. Always trade. What most Brexiters don't realise is that trade - while a benefit - is not the principal reason for most other nations being in the EU. It may have been the UK's motivation but not most others. Solidarity and cooperation with neighbours, political stability, avoiding wars and other things all rank higher than trade. I don't think other EU nations are looking at what is going on here with envy, at least not at the moment. As has been said already, if anything it has made people be less complacent about EU membership and what it means.
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  #14112  
Old 23.07.2017, 09:41 PM
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I think there's more hope than ever. As reality bites, businesses move or choose other locations as we're starting to see, as 'project fear' becomes 'project: I told you so' I expect the cracks in the Tory party to widen. And they don't have a majority large enough to deal with any crisis.

The transition period that David Davis now wants (having previously said we don't need) will likely end up being essentially the same deal that we have now, and it will gradually and imperceptibly drag on, and on, and on, and on. Years and years, not weeks and months. And we'll end up with either no brexit or a brexit in name only, with very little changing. One day in the future there may be another referendum, which should sway to remain, given changing demographics as the old die off (harsh but true) and the young become voters.

The hard brexit/no deal scenario is totally out of the question.
Well I hope you're right. But increasingly it seems that any watering down will need to come from within the Tory party and you can't look to Corbyn to make a stand. I think Labour has made a calculation that they will lose fewer votes from the Remain group if they go after Brexit than from the Leave group if they oppose it.
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  #14113  
Old Yesterday, 10:05 PM
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Further to the discussion we had the other week about whether the media gives its readers/viewers what they want, or whether it tries to influence what they think... well today we have our answer!

The news that the Supreme Court has quashed legislation requiring payment of fees for employees to bring Employment Tribunal claims has been big news today. Except in the Mail, which couldn't have hid the story further down the page if it tried. Union victory, Conservative government defeat, rights of ordinary people against rich employers... you can see why they stuck it away in a corner somewhere and hoped nobody would notice. But Mail readers, at least those who made it far enough past higher-ranked articles about Ambrosia rice pudding, a swollen hedgehog and a man frying an egg on his patio in Dubai (I'm not being comedic, these are actual stories), appear to have called the paper out on it and proclaimed it a good thing for ordinary people but probably not one for the paper or its owners. It appears to be overwhelmingly in the interests of Mail readers, but not Mail owners or editors, hence it does not get proper coverage.
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