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View Full Version : You gotta let me know, should Haslett stay or should he go?


Riggo
16.12.2010, 11:05 PM
The skins had a great run of relatively successful defenses with relatively weak talent.

Until this year.

Do you want him back?

jklcan1
17.12.2010, 10:05 AM
Can't see any justification for Haslett being there next year.

fugitive
17.12.2010, 12:57 PM
Do you want him back?

No thanks.

RickySanders
17.12.2010, 01:15 PM
Dim diolch!

(Welsh for "no thank you!")

wuds100
17.12.2010, 03:53 PM
If Marv Lewis goes in Cincy then possibly Mike Zimmer
may become available though he maybe in contention for HC job there.

my_friend_goo
17.12.2010, 04:59 PM
If there is a more capable 3-4 coordinator out there come the end of the season, I say go for it. I don't blame Haslett exclusively for the monster number of yards given up this season - attempting to enforce a 3-4 D on a 4-3 roster wasn't exclusively his decision. But a good D coach could have achieved better I think.

When the Packers made the switch, they brought in Dom Capers, one of the best there is. I'm not convinced Haslett was Mike's first choice. That said, Mike went through his fair share of coordinators during his last years in Denver with no success at all and may prefer having some stability. Could be important.

One name synonymous with the 3-4 available even as we speak is Wade Phillips. I know people will jump down my throat for even suggesting it, but his best body of work has been as a D-coordinator, not a head coach.

RickySanders
18.12.2010, 01:41 PM
One name synonymous with the 3-4 available even as we speak is Wade Phillips. I know people will jump down my throat for even suggesting it, but his best body of work has been as a D-coordinator, not a head coach.

Strangely for someone who hates the Cowboys and never rated Wade Phillips as HC, I actually think this is a good comment.

The_Hangman
19.12.2010, 11:58 AM
Only if there is somebody better available.

I'd be in favour of Wade Phillips as DC in DC.

G_Redskin
19.12.2010, 06:01 PM
If there is a more capable 3-4 coordinator out there come the end of the season, I say go for it. I don't blame Haslett exclusively for the monster number of yards given up this season - attempting to enforce a 3-4 D on a 4-3 roster wasn't exclusively his decision. But a good D coach could have achieved better I think.

When the Packers made the switch, they brought in Dom Capers, one of the best there is. I'm not convinced Haslett was Mike's first choice. That said, Mike went through his fair share of coordinators during his last years in Denver with no success at all and may prefer having some stability. Could be important.

One name synonymous with the 3-4 available even as we speak is Wade Phillips. I know people will jump down my throat for even suggesting it, but his best body of work has been as a D-coordinator, not a head coach.

Good post and I agree with it all.

I dont blame Haslett for the short comings of our D this season. Were running a 3-4 scheme with 4-3 personal. Maybe we can asses Haslett when hes got the right personel to run the 3-4 ???

That being said I didnt want Haslett when he came and I dont really want him there now......

Britskin
20.12.2010, 11:11 AM
I think you have to look at the players at well.

When the pressure is on at the end of our games the Redskins come up short too often on both sides of the football.

Too many times in the last few years we have allowed teams to drive in the last minutes of the game to tie or win the games.
Same goes for the offence.

Gman84
01.01.2011, 03:07 AM
I could see Marv Lewis or Mike Zimmer coming in but I'm not totally against Haslett staying. I don't know how much say he has in running the defense in that has Shanahan asked him to stick to 3-4 exclusively and ride through the issues they knew would appear this first year with too many square pegs in round holes or has Haslett himself refused to mix things up more. I expected more of a hybrid defense this year, 3-4 looks mixed in with 4-3 base at times but the 3-4 has been dominant and not quite what I was expecting.

B55Green
01.01.2011, 08:09 PM
In all honesty I would keep him. We have to remember we have 4-3 players running a 3-4 defense, it's going to take a little bit till we get some pieces in place, same can be said for Shanahan's offense.

I mean look at the turnover rate already with the 3-4, now imagine it with actual 3-4 players, I think we could be very dangerous.

santana89
03.01.2011, 01:20 PM
His time is up.

The best move we can make this off-season is to appoint Wade Phillips as DC.

JD for breakfast
03.01.2011, 03:14 PM
I don't know if Wade Phillips could do much better unless there was a major personnel overhaul on D. Out of all of out linemen and LB's there's only Ke'emoeatu, Carriker and Orakpo who look natural in the scheme. Keeping starters healthy would have helped Haslett out too

Gman84
03.01.2011, 07:37 PM
I'm not even sure Rak was a great fit, I think he suits his hand on the dirt better but he is still a natural rushing the passer and he is still been held by Donald Penn lol!

I though LFB did well considering he was one of my big concerns but we need at least two new lineman who can contribute along with Bryant, Carriker and Jarmon, a new ILB next to LFB (I wouldn't bring back McIntosh) and a new OLB opposite Rak. I think the secondary, if they can bring back Rogers, would be ok if the pass rush was improved and wasn't so reliant on blitzing.

JD for breakfast
03.01.2011, 11:44 PM
IMO Orakpo is a little under-sized to play DE in a 4-3 (sounds strange to say when you look at him I know). Yes he'd still get double digit sacks with his pure speed but I think he might struggle in the run game against a power rushing attack. To be honest I was surprised we drafted him. Obvioulsy I'm glad we did as he's already looking like a leader on our D but I didn't see where he fit into the 4-3 scheme we were running at the time.

If used properly in a properly staffed 3-4 scheme Orakpo could be as dominant as DeMarcus Ware or Clay Matthews. He has all the attributes but he's way out on his own as our best pass rusher and draws lots of attenton because there's no threat from anywhere else. Like I've said before, you need the personnel to fit your scheme and we just don't have enough 3-4 players on our roster. If we're going to stick with it we need to commit to it 100%, through the Draft and in FA

santana89
04.01.2011, 12:28 PM
I'm not sure whether Orakpo is a better 4-3 end or 3-4 OLB to be honest. His physique should suit the 3-4 but from what I've seen it hasn't necessarily been clear cut.

my_friend_goo
04.01.2011, 01:05 PM
Seems opposing lineman have worked out an effective holding-without-actually-holding technique for slowing Orakpo down. He needs to bring more variety to his rush and learn alternatives to beat lineman applying that technique.

The only player effective at NT was Bryant, but he's not 16 game starter/every down material. Kemo was like the Rabach of the D. Carriker could turn into a smart acquisition, but the need for another genuine DE is necessary.

JD for breakfast
05.01.2011, 11:07 PM
Wade Phillips has gone to the Texans as DC so we can knock that idea on the head

Riggo
08.01.2011, 07:59 PM
I was against moving to the 3-4 and was unimpressed with the skins execution of it, mainly due not having the personnel.

But with another years worth of personnel change is it possible they might get the mix right?

Harwich Hog
10.01.2011, 05:38 PM
I think Green Bay and Kansas City have proven that the transition from 4-3 to 3-4 is in inexact science. Green Bay made a relatively comfortable switch but that was on the back of the drafting of BJ Raji who is a prototypical NT and Clay Matthews who is so effective rushing off the edge it makes me wanna be sick (over him). Kansas City seem to have made an ok change too. But their front seven is littered with high end draft picks, including Tyson Jackson who was 3rd overall. One thing is for sure, top picks need be spent and the Redskins haven't yet.

Another constant for GB and KC are stud defensive coordinators with history of running 3-4s. I hope Haslett proves to be one too.

It'll be interesting how Houston adapt (assuming they do make the switch). Alot of investment has been made to their 4-3 (Mario Williams, Brian Cushing, Amobi Okoye, Connor Barwin, DeMeco Ryans).

JD for breakfast
10.01.2011, 05:50 PM
I think thats the key to making the transition. If you're going to go with it you have to go 100% and commit to adjusting the roster. Our problem is that we didn't really do that at all, either via the draft or free agency, Ke'emoeatu and Carriker aside. We just tried to plug our existing personnel into the new system and hoped for the best. The phrase square pegs in round holes pretty much sums it up

If Jim Haslett wants to make this 3-4 scheme work he needs to be in the ear of Shanahan and Bruce Allen this off-season and get the players that he needs to put an effective D together for 2011

redskinstribe
13.01.2011, 11:07 AM
The skins had a great run of relatively successful defenses with relatively weak talent.

Until this year.

Do you want him back?

we need experience in all departments. we need players who can block

Gman84
13.01.2011, 06:34 PM
To be fair Blanches defenses could be frustrating because they never made plays when it matter. At least Haslett can turn around and claim the D won half our games (Dallas, Chicago, Jax) with plays they made.

my_friend_goo
13.01.2011, 11:14 PM
To be fair Blanches defenses could be frustrating because they never made plays when it matter. At least Haslett can turn around and claim the D won half our games (Dallas, Chicago, Jax) with plays they made.

How great was it to see defensive scores? Also, they gave up a shedload of yards, but only gave up 41 more points overall (21st in the NFL, definitely skewed by that horrendous drubbing by the Eagles), less than a FG more per game - hardly disastrous. Hopefully a second year in the system and a few well-chosen upgrades will make the difference.

JD for breakfast
01.08.2011, 03:09 PM
Thought this thread could do with a bump seeing as we've seen quite a bit of off-season investment in Haslett's D so I think we have to see a big step up this year. I like the look of our defensive front 3 much more with Cofield, Bowen, Jenkins and Nield all added to the rotation with Carriker and Bryant. Kerrigan's presence should help our pass rush too and Landry and Otagwe looks like a formidable safety pairing.

My big concern on our D is who plays alongside London Fletcher in the middle. Going into camp it looks like a straight fight between Perry Riley and Robert Henson, until there's an announcement on H.B. Blades status anyway, which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

wuds100
01.08.2011, 11:44 PM
Thought this thread could do with a bump seeing as we've seen quite a bit of off-season investment in Haslett's D so I think we have to see a big step up this year. I like the look of our defensive front 3 much more with Cofield, Bowen, Jenkins and Nield all added to the rotation with Carriker and Bryant. Kerrigan's presence should help our pass rush too and Landry and Otagwe looks like a formidable safety pairing.

My big concern on our D is who plays alongside London Fletcher in the middle. Going into camp it looks like a straight fight between Perry Riley and Robert Henson, until there's an announcement on H.B. Blades status anyway, which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Wonder if Lorenzo could be moved inside to compete he is our stud special teamer
and will be a sure thing for hustle,
The worry upfront could be that we are undersized at NT though J Jenkins and Bowen
should improve us against the run.

RickySanders
02.08.2011, 10:25 AM
Latest I haved heard on this is that Cofield will get playing time at NT. In regards to the ILB position to partner Fletch, Lorenzo Alexander will be competing for this spot according to the Washington Post. Also, HB Blades is said to have re-signed.

JD for breakfast
02.08.2011, 01:02 PM
Lofa Tatupu is apparently scheduled to visit Redskins Park this week. He's injury-prone but he'd be asked to do less in the 3-4 than he would as the sole MLB in a 4-3 and I think he's still capable of playing at a high level

Gman84
07.08.2011, 01:59 PM
Well, McIntosh is back too so him, Alexander and Riley look to be competing for that spot next to LFB. Orakpo and Kerrigan should man the outside backed up by the likes of Rob Jackson and rookie Marcus White. I do think having gotten better up front will help this unit as a whole. I kinda want Alexander to win that inside spot, I think it's a better suit to his skill set plus he's just the kind of guy you root for to do well.

The_Hangman
07.08.2011, 02:05 PM
Fox from the Steelers has been signed too.

Plenty of depth there now. Agree on Alexander.

JD for breakfast
07.08.2011, 03:21 PM
Jarvis Jenkins has been getting a lot of praise in camp so far. Looks like a potential starter

http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Who-Has-Impressed-Early-In-Camp/1547de9a-95ce-4e25-abce-10e32a5e27c3

my_friend_goo
07.08.2011, 08:38 PM
Jarvis Jenkins has been getting a lot of praise in camp so far. Looks like a potential starter

http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Who-Has-Impressed-Early-In-Camp/1547de9a-95ce-4e25-abce-10e32a5e27c3

I'm really hoping this continues and it isn't necessarily a sign that the o-line is still woeful. I like the idea of a fierce competition along the line for playing time between Bowen, Jenkins, Carriker, Golston at DE and Cofield, Bryant and Neild at NT. There's the potential of plenty of depth and a good rotation of these guys could see a big change in the D-Line performance from last year. A significant change there will make an overall boost to the D's overall performance. I'm looking forward to seeing this year's product.

JD for breakfast
08.08.2011, 07:55 PM
Still think we're a little short of depth at OLB. Orakpo and Kerrigan look like a very good pairing to start but beyond that is very thin, with just Rob Jackson and rookie Marcus White behind them, unless we include the one-man-gang Lorenzo Alexander in the mix but signs suggest he'll play inside. Think we need to bring some experience there if there's a decent FA out there

Gman84
10.08.2011, 05:56 PM
Chris Wilson won't be back, signed for the Eagles.

JD for breakfast
10.08.2011, 08:09 PM
So he was the last one? Does that mean the Eagles have actually signed everybody now?

Gman84
11.08.2011, 08:39 AM
So he was the last one? Does that mean the Eagles have actually signed everybody now?

Well they just added Steve Smith from the Giants too now so it certainly feels like it.

The_Hangman
11.08.2011, 05:25 PM
WHAT? :eek:

They're going all out for the Superbowl. If Vick keeps getting banged up though, I don't fancy Vince Young taking them there.

G_Redskin
26.08.2011, 07:23 PM
Our D looked good last night, I think Haslett has the tools to run the 3-4 now and we will see the benefit of the 3-4 compared to last seasons make do version.

I wasnt sold on Haslett but we have to see how he goes with the right players to fit the scheme before we serve judgement.

Gman84
27.08.2011, 12:48 PM
Can this defense put pressure on the QB - Yes.
Can this defense play the run reasonably well - Yes.
Can this defense provide good coverage - big question mark IMO.

We know D-Hall is a gambler. We know Landry prefers to attack and will bite on stuff but he is physically dominant and can make some plays in coverage. We know Josh Wilson is a competitor but is undersized and has had some pre-season struggles. We don't know if Kevin Barnes can step up to the plate and contribute this season although he showed flashes last season. We do know Phillip Buchanon will miss the opening four games of the season. We know Orakpo is not the best on coverage, he's a rusher. We know Kerrigan is still learning coverage, something he never did in college. We know LFB despite his age can cover well down the field and we also know our new free safety OJ Atogwe excels in coverage and should help. We also know Rocky McIntosh sucks in coverage and is a major liability if teams go down the seams or across the middle into his area.

Basically, I think this D will give up some big plays when the pressure fails to get to the QB or some of our defenders are found in one on one situations and it could be the biggest area of concern all season long.

JD for breakfast
30.08.2011, 01:45 PM
Agree there Gman. I think it will be a big test of Haslett's faith in his secondary as to how much blitzing he does. I'll be watching his play-calling with great interest

G_Redskin
02.09.2011, 12:41 PM
This seasons 3-4 D will be more capable of applying more pressure, gaining more penetration, causing more disruption and making the opposing QB have to get rid of the ball more quicker than he wants. All this adds up to more chances of Sacks & turnovers, both stop the opposing Offense from moving the chains and gaining momentum. The less time the QB has to throw the ball then the less chance his recievers have of getting open, a simular problem the Redskins Offense experianced with Jason Campbell and his O Line.

If our front seven get the pressure then our DB's will have the opportunity to make the plays. If we have to do without Laron Landry against the giants then we can fill that gap but put Laron on the field too and we have the tools to hurt other teams :D

I cant wait for the season to start,

Lets Get It On!

JD for breakfast
03.10.2011, 07:28 PM
Well I think we know the answer to this question now! Our D is playing lights out so far in 2011. Pressure is coming from all sides and Ryan Kerrigan looks like an inspired pick and an early Defensive Rookie Of The Year contender. Rocky McIntosh has stepped up this year too. My biggest concern going in was that 2nd MLB spot but as long as McIntosh keeps up his current level of play we're looking pretty solid up the middle

Harwich Hog
05.10.2011, 12:53 PM
Well I think we know the answer to this question now! Our D is playing lights out so far in 2011. Pressure is coming from all sides and Ryan Kerrigan looks like an inspired pick and an early Defensive Rookie Of The Year contender. Rocky McIntosh has stepped up this year too. My biggest concern going in was that 2nd MLB spot but as long as McIntosh keeps up his current level of play we're looking pretty solid up the middle

I'm really excited about our D - and in particular the future of our D. Small concern of how much longer London Fletcher has in him so you could argue that a big pick needs to be spent on an ILB but with Jenkins coming back next season we seem to be looking good along the DL. Bowen, Carriker, Cofield looks like a nice trio - letting Kerrigan and Orakpo make their impacts. Hopefully Jenkins can solidify further and perhaps add another play-making element to things.