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View Full Version : Sexy Rexy the man in 2011?


Gman84
03.01.2011, 03:16 PM
Where do people stand on this? My feeling is McNabb is going to get shipped out hopefully recouping at least part of what we paid for him and Grossman should be re-signed on a reasonable medium term 2-3 years) incentive-laden deal. In the draft add a guy the staff believe can learn & be effective in their system. Grossman seems to operate this system well but you have to accept his short comings (bone headed turnovers) that go along with some of his nice plays. I see him as a Vinny Testaverde type. I certainly don't think we'd have done any worst this season had he started the whole year.

Thoughts?

JD for breakfast
03.01.2011, 03:20 PM
I'd go along with that. McNabb's benching suggests that he's done in DC. I'm not sure what the terms of his contract extension were but hopefully it's not going to put off any potential trade. Could see the 49ers taking him

If we take anything other than a QB with the tenth overall pick I'll personally have Bruce Allen shot. It's glaringly obvious to anyone watching that the team needs a leader and I'm yet to be convinced the Grossman is a guy that the rest of the roster can believe in but I'd give him a shot based on his last 3 games. Any insight into the QB's entering the draft this time round?

wuds100
03.01.2011, 04:46 PM
What will we get for McNabb?
I would love it if we got the Cards or 49ers high second rounders.

my_friend_goo
03.01.2011, 05:43 PM
What will we get for McNabb?
I would love it if we got the Cards or 49ers high second rounders.

I'd suspect that at best we'd recover his year's 4th. Which itself is not to be sniffed at.

Like it or not, I think Rex is going to be the guy to hold the fort until the franchise QB is ready to start, whoever he may be. The bridge-burning scenario with Donovan McNabb makes it highly unlikely that he'll be here next year, but ignoring that, here's a few interesting points:

McNabb has been good for 1.07 touchdowns and 1.23 turnovers a game in 13 games, although it should be noted he did fumble 10 times, but only 1 of those was lost. Whether that's down to sheer luck or smart recovery is unknown.

Grossman has been good for 2.33 touchdowns and 2.33 turnovers (2.66 if you include the fumble in the Detroit game) a game in 3 games. He fumbled and lost it 4 times all season. An extraordinarily high number for the amount of times he played, even by his standards. Can you teach a QB to hold onto the ball when he's sacked? Do the Shanahans think they can? I'm not sure how many of those fumbles came as a result of would-be sacks. I know McNabb had some of his fumbles on botched exchanges.

% completion rate: McNabb 58.3% @ 7.2 ypa (6th worst of a 12 year career and 0.6% below his career average). Grossman 55.6% @ 6.6 ypa (2nd best of an 8 year career and 1.4% above his career average).

Quarterback rating: McNabb 77.1 (2nd worst of his career), Grossman 81.2 (best of his career).

They look pretty comparable to this point. However, in the opponent's red zone, Grossman completed 9 of 16 (56.2%) with 6 TDs and 1 int (not sure how many fumbles - was it one or two yesterday?). In only 3 games. McNabb, on the other hand, was 25 of 46 (54.3%) 8 TDs, 0 ints (any fumbles?). In 13 games. Whilst overall, neither of those performances is worth celebrating, I'd take Grossman's 6 TDs over McNabb's 8. Also of note is that McNabb threw three ints whilst backed up within their own 20, Grossman threw none (a total of 9 vs 3 within Redskins territory, so maybe not that much of a difference). Theit two-minute warning performances didn't differ a huge amount, although the both managed only one touchdown pass each.

It should be noted that Grossman has only played 1 full season in his career - of the 7 partial seasons, this was by far and away his best effort. It can't be said that opposing coaches don't have enough knowledge of him. That full season wasn't unreasonable - 23 TDs vs 20 ints (and 25 turnovers in all), a 6.7 ypa, 54.6% completion rate and 73.9 QB rating.

Of course, you can use stats to tell pretty much any story you want (the small sample size for Rex doesn't help, either). I doubt the stats would extrapolate over a season (37 TDs, 37 turnovers including 21 fumbles?!). But looking at this season, in this system, I really don't think McNabb offers the team more. Importantly, by accounts his relationship with our OC was difficult and probably was not suited to the scheme, whereas Rex not only has a strong relationship, but must also recognise this as his best chance of having anything of an NFL career.

my_friend_goo
03.01.2011, 05:50 PM
As an interesting aside, at face value Campbell's stats are comparable to McNabb's, with the huge exception of nearly half as many turnovers in nearly as much playing time. Even down to number of sacks and TDs in the red zone.

JD for breakfast
03.01.2011, 06:34 PM
As an interesting aside, at face value Campbell's stats are comparable to McNabb's, with the huge exception of nearly half as many turnovers in nearly as much playing time. Even down to number of sacks and TDs in the red zone.

It's ok comparing them both individually but you've got to take into account that the Raiders have run the ball far more effectively than we have this season. McNabb hasn't really had a consistent run game to fall back on

Gman84
03.01.2011, 07:33 PM
I'd go along with that. McNabb's benching suggests that he's done in DC. I'm not sure what the terms of his contract extension were but hopefully it's not going to put off any potential trade. Could see the 49ers taking him

If we take anything other than a QB with the tenth overall pick I'll personally have Bruce Allen shot. It's glaringly obvious to anyone watching that the team needs a leader and I'm yet to be convinced the Grossman is a guy that the rest of the roster can believe in but I'd give him a shot based on his last 3 games. Any insight into the QB's entering the draft this time round?

On of the most encouraging and clever moves made by Bruce Allen is the contract extension he got McNabb to sign prior to his benching. McNabb is due an option bonus BUT the Redskins - if they wish - do not have to pay this until before the first day of the '11 regular season. Hence, there is no D-day type deadline squeezing the team to either trade hime for next to nothing or release him to avoid paying out $10m. No team is going to wait til after training camp if they want McNabb and miss all that time learning a new offense. As mentioned above, I think a 4th is a realistic target although I'd take a conditional 3rd in '12 if it was offered instead.

As for Campbell, he'd have got killed behind our O-line this season and he is what he is - average - no massive mistakes but not many big plays. For all his poor play, McNabb made more big plays and actually led a 4th quarter game typing drive (Buc's, bar the missed XP), something Campbell never did.

johnholywood
03.01.2011, 08:20 PM
I can't see us getting more than a 4th for McNabb, he's damaged goods. Fair to say the system he moves to will have to be similar to the Eagles system he used for so many years. What a new coach in SF will make of him is anyone's guess, but he'd get more time if he was developing a new QB taken in the first round of the draft than taking a vet like McNabb. Whether Luck enters the draft will clearly also have an impact.

Espn 980 just said the last 3 weeks were an audition as much for the offensive scheme as they were for Grossman, and they said that they thought the Skins would sign another FA QB such as Bulger who is now healthy knows the scheme ( I have no idea whether he does know the scheme or not).

I doubt if we'll know much until the draft. Will anyone offer us much to trade down and fill some holes as opposed to us going for a QB with the 10th pick??

My concerns about Grossman is that he had circa 8 turnovers in just over 3 games, and in the 3 starts he had Torain and an O line that seemed to be coming together at least in terms of run blocking. I thought he looked OK, but immobile. His career passer rating is 70 which says it all really.

Keep as a back-up, but as a starter? No thanks!

15eastaf
03.01.2011, 08:30 PM
Mc Nabb is one of the best QB's, we've just had a crap o line and dissapointing recievers, to add to that the playbook dosn't have many easy underneath throws in it, there all big pays. I think a QB would be a waste of a pick this year, i know we need one but i think we shold draft a reciever or defensive back. You can't judge McNabb with the o line he's had to play behind, we need to change that.
To answere the question, sexy rexy is not the man in 2011. I hope.

Packman12
03.01.2011, 08:33 PM
Mc Nabb is one of the best QB's, we've just had a crap o line and dissapointing recievers, to add to that the playbook dosn't have many easy underneath throws in it, there all big pays. I think a QB would be a waste of a pick this year, i know we need one but i think we shold draft a reciever or defensive back. You can't judge McNabb with the o line he's had to play behind, we need to change that.
To answere the question, sexy rexy is not the man in 2011. I hope.

McNabb one of the best?!

How do you define one of the best?!

He is not a top ten QB and hasnt been for some time.
His accuracy issues have hampered him his whole career.

my_friend_goo
04.01.2011, 01:00 PM
McNabb one of the best?!

How do you define one of the best?!

He is not a top ten QB and hasnt been for some time.
His accuracy issues have hampered him his whole career.

I was hoping this wasn't true at the start of the season, but now it's over I can't help but agree.

Truth is, from what we've seen this season, Grossman and McNabb just offer different variations towards the same result. In this environment, anyhow. The Shanahans will undoubetdly have expected McNabb to come in and get the system in minimal time - to be functioning well at least by the mid-point of the season. That's what you'd expect from a veteran player. He didn't and I think they're right to cut their losses rather than try to play this out for as long as possible.

IF (and only if ) a viable FA becomes available who has operated a similar scheme effectively (as there's no obvious franchise quarterbacks about to become available), he's worth consideration, especially if the quarterback of the future can't be had in the upcoming draft (don't force yourself into it Mike, please).

As for the Campbell comment, I wasn't trying to prove anything in his favour. I agree as much as anyone else that he had to go, for his own sake as much as the Skins'. I also know that stats don't take into consideration circumstances and outcomes. But if people were keen to let him go with those kind of stats, why so keen to hold onto McNabb?

Gman84
04.01.2011, 03:08 PM
For me when we got McNabb the most exciting part for me was his big play ability and to a certain degree despite his struggles we got that. I was also prepared to accept his faults including the amount of grounded passes he's always managed to throw but that turned out to be far worse that I imagined and his turnovers at times were horrid.

What I think you get with Rex is a smoother operation of the offense. Watch the Dallas game and see how quick he was in and out of the huddle giving himself time to scan the D. Then watch the Buc's game and despite McNabb's last drive he had no sense of urgency. Grossman showed an ability to put together longish controlled drives, McNabb was all or nothing but both had horrible turnovers although in Grossman's case it was expected although that's no excuse.

If we go into '11 with Rex as the starter I think we can get reasonable play out of him although you will get the odd nightmare but if the supporting cast is stronger he may just be able to produce more than anyone expected. However, it's not the greatest situation to hang your hopes on so another QB is a definite need.

my_friend_goo
04.01.2011, 04:43 PM
What I think you get with Rex is a smoother operation of the offense. Watch the Dallas game and see how quick he was in and out of the huddle giving himself time to scan the D. Then watch the Buc's game and despite McNabb's last drive he had no sense of urgency. Grossman showed an ability to put together longish controlled drives, McNabb was all or nothing but both had horrible turnovers although in Grossman's case it was expected although that's no excuse.

Number of times I saw McNabb waste a timeout in order to avoid a delay of game penalty - it was almost like having Campbell back. Definitely agree with Rex's sense of urgency and as I've already stated, he was far more effective in the red zone - a sure positive.

santana89
04.01.2011, 08:13 PM
I don't see Rex as someone who can lead us to better than 6-10 so it pointless making him the starter. I doubt FA will throw up anyone good enough either and the QB draft class doesn't look like it has any depth whatsoever.

Shanahan messed it up really by giving McNabb that silly contract. Then he realised he wasn't worth it and now has to cut him to avoid paying ridiculous money down the line. He should have realised McNabb was the best we could have for the short-term and given him a contract to reflect that.

JD for breakfast
04.01.2011, 08:57 PM
I don't know if the siuation with McNabb is so bad. I don't know the exact terms of the extension we gave him but I do know that we don't have to give him a penny of it until the first day of the 2011 season so we've got the whole off-season to find a trade for him. I don't think the money he was given is in the same league as the money Haynesworth got. It was Bruce Allen that negotiated McNabb's extension too btw

Gman84
04.01.2011, 11:20 PM
I don't see Rex as someone who can lead us to better than 6-10 so it pointless making him the starter. I doubt FA will throw up anyone good enough either and the QB draft class doesn't look like it has any depth whatsoever.

Shanahan messed it up really by giving McNabb that silly contract. Then he realised he wasn't worth it and now has to cut him to avoid paying ridiculous money down the line. He should have realised McNabb was the best we could have for the short-term and given him a contract to reflect that.

Actually, Shanahan and more likely, Bruce Allen, re-signed McNabb to a very clever deal. They gave him a $3m rise last season which is cump change to Snyder and counts for nothing in an uncapped year and then extended him hence protecting their rights to the player. He is now due a $10m roster bonus BUT this bonus does not have to be paid until, if the Redskins desire, up to one day before the regular season starts. This means the team isn't in a position where they have to try and deal him before April for example or cut him loose to avoid paying the bonus. Potential suitors are not going to wait until September to get the man they want (and McNabb will have suitors, it's a QB hungry league) so the Redskins can be patient and wait for the right deal to come which hopefully it will. I would suspect, the 49ers, Browns, Vikings, Cardinals, Dolphins and Panthers will all consider McNabb a genuine option come the off-season.

santana89
05.01.2011, 11:44 AM
So why did we bother in the first place? It's not like there are teams falling over each other to sign McNabb. We could have tied him down to a shorter-term contract without stupid bonuses and have him start for another year while tutoring a QB from the draft.

wuds100
05.01.2011, 11:54 AM
Actually, Shanahan and more likely, Bruce Allen, re-signed McNabb to a very clever deal. They gave him a $3m rise last season which is cump change to Snyder and counts for nothing in an uncapped year and then extended him hence protecting their rights to the player. He is now due a $10m roster bonus BUT this bonus does not have to be paid until, if the Redskins desire, up to one day before the regular season starts. This means the team isn't in a position where they have to try and deal him before April for example or cut him loose to avoid paying the bonus. Potential suitors are not going to wait until September to get the man they want (and McNabb will have suitors, it's a QB hungry league) so the Redskins can be patient and wait for the right deal to come which hopefully it will. I would suspect, the 49ers, Browns, Vikings, Cardinals, Dolphins and Panthers will all consider McNabb a genuine option come the off-season.

This is the scenario we need for trading McNabb one big auction,
I also cant see the Cards or the Vikes wanting a rookie QB since
they are not that far away with there current rosters,
Has anybody got any thoughts on what we might get for Haynesworth if anything,
His salary is now respectable and he showed in flashs last year that he can still
be a game changer,
Maybe the problem like with McNabb could be that everybody knows that we need
to move these guys thus not giving us much leverage.

Harwich Hog
05.01.2011, 12:34 PM
If we were offered a 4th rounder for McNabb i'd take it, definitely. Remember we're due to receive another fourth from the Raiders for Jason Campbell in 2012 so in grand scheme of things we'd have traded a 2nd and a 4th for two 4ths, which isn't nearly the disaster it's been made out to be.

I'd be happy with Grossman next year - I might have to ignore all the "start rookie QB" threads I encounter though (assuming that's how we spend one of early picks).

Hester at the 40, 30, 20, 10, touchdown!
05.01.2011, 01:24 PM
Rex can be good but unfortunately too often he'll be skittish and make some terrible throws/choices/etc. If Alex Smith goes to free agency he could make an adequate game manager until you find a franchise guy.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html

Though with Redskins current trend of throwing money at people as a short term fix don't be suprised if Favre turns up :P

Gman84
05.01.2011, 02:35 PM
So why did we bother in the first place? It's not like there are teams falling over each other to sign McNabb. We could have tied him down to a shorter-term contract without stupid bonuses and have him start for another year while tutoring a QB from the draft.

Because he would have been a free agent, at least this way they can gain some compensation back. The "stupid" bonus you refer to will likely be paid by another team if he is traded.

He isn't going to start and tutor someone because part of the reason he was benched is he failed to fully embrace the offense and wanted to free lance. Whilst Shanahan has to take some stick for failing to see that before he made the trade he also deserves credit for not continuing with a mistake. If it's not working it doesn't matter what you paid or what you'll lose.

The simple fact here is McNabb is done in DC but at least their is a chance to get something back for him and I think we can all agree we need as many draft choices as possible.

my_friend_goo
05.01.2011, 09:59 PM
If we were offered a 4th rounder for McNabb i'd take it, definitely. Remember we're due to receive another fourth from the Raiders for Jason Campbell in 2012 so in grand scheme of things we'd have traded a 2nd and a 4th for two 4ths, which isn't nearly the disaster it's been made out to be.

Good point - I keep forgetting about that, mainly because it's due in 2012. Was it a definite or a conditional pick, though? Campbell played enough for the Raiders and he should see some action next year that he's got to have been worth a 4th.

Rex can be good but unfortunately too often he'll be skittish and make some terrible throws/choices/etc. If Alex Smith goes to free agency he could make an adequate game manager until you find a franchise guy.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html

Though with Redskins current trend of throwing money at people as a short term fix don't be suprised if Favre turns up :P

I know you're being tongue-in-cheek with the Favre comment, but the Redskins did not throw money at people as a short term fix in this last off-season and by all accounts that is one of the benefits of having Bruce Allen. The veterans signed had incentive-laden, short term contracts and the people who didn't perform were generally cut during the season, except where the were no alternatives. Even the one seemingly boneheaded contract, McNabb's, on closer inspection reveals a clever deal. He can be cut loose with minimal impact (Snyder can afford the extra money McNabb made this season). I'm pretty certain Haynesworth and Halls were re-done to the same effect. One year doesn't make for a trend, but I'm starting to suspect those days are behind us.

As for Smith, if we're going with one bust QB as a starter, I'd rather go with the devil they (Shanahans) know (if they're happy with his performance) than with an unknown quantity (with regards to the system).

JD for breakfast
05.01.2011, 11:13 PM
Alex Smith looked half decent as long as the 49ers rushing game was still functioning well. As soon as Gore went to IR he crumbled and his namesake Troy ended up taking his starting spot. A well-functioning rushing game is something we haven't had all season. It's been sporadic at best

Hester at the 40, 30, 20, 10, touchdown!
06.01.2011, 10:32 AM
Good point - I keep forgetting about that, mainly because it's due in 2012. Was it a definite or a conditional pick, though? Campbell played enough for the Raiders and he should see some action next year that he's got to have been worth a 4th.



I know you're being tongue-in-cheek with the Favre comment, but the Redskins did not throw money at people as a short term fix in this last off-season and by all accounts that is one of the benefits of having Bruce Allen. The veterans signed had incentive-laden, short term contracts and the people who didn't perform were generally cut during the season, except where the were no alternatives. Even the one seemingly boneheaded contract, McNabb's, on closer inspection reveals a clever deal. He can be cut loose with minimal impact (Snyder can afford the extra money McNabb made this season). I'm pretty certain Haynesworth and Halls were re-done to the same effect. One year doesn't make for a trend, but I'm starting to suspect those days are behind us.

As for Smith, if we're going with one bust QB as a starter, I'd rather go with the devil they (Shanahans) know (if they're happy with his performance) than with an unknown quantity (with regards to the system).

Fair comment and I retract my statement. With not being a Redskins fan, contract wise it's often just the headlines you pick up on. ie $100 million to Albert. The McNabb one was slightly different as it came out after it was first announced about the options.

Not sure if Smith was a bust or whether it was just that the 49ers as a whole disappointed. Guess only time will tell with that one.