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  #11  
Old 06.01.2010, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by orangecrush7 View Post
simms a few more snaps,
Oh jeez - the apocalypse has begun

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kyle dilfer orton...
Dilfer won a Super Bowl
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  #12  
Old 06.01.2010, 02:14 AM
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Dilfer won a Super Bowl[/QUOTE]

err i think your find it was the ravens defence, that won him his ring, lol
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  #13  
Old 06.01.2010, 02:17 AM
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va, one year into a system that throws bubble screens and 6 yard passes,it can't be that complex... give brandstater or simms a few more snaps, even the've both got mobility and stronger arms, anything but kyle dilfer orton...
at least quote me properly, and not just the bits you like...
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  #14  
Old 06.01.2010, 02:28 AM
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So for Orton's so called problems you put down to bubble screens and 6 yd passes. Orton doesn't call the plays - not really his problem. He has an arm strong enough to play in the NFL. His arm is not as strong as Cutler's was. His decision making is. It is as strong as Matt Schaub's arm - I'll take that. As I say what he did at Purdue showed he has a strong arm. Against the Redskins he showed the deep ball. In fact in game one he zipped a 30 yarder to Marshall which Marshall dropped. Bear in mind Orton's ankle never fully recovered after the Redskins game - it needs the offseason to and that he had a broken finger for 3 weeks didn't help the zip. Though his throws were better than Simms, who is not a QB, certainly not in the NFL. I seriously think he could be gone.

Now Orton needs a good supporting cast. When the O line collapsed it collapsed. Peyton Manning is a freak the way he releases the ball quickly - a normal QB such as Orton has to take what he can when the upfront blocking is poor. Also the drops were just unacceptable and in the 2nd year of this system the RBs will become more involved and there will be an increase in the importance of the slot receiver - look for Royal to be in the slot a lot. Imagine him getting manned up by a LB - he will be gone!

Oh, and bubble screens are actually quite complex for what they are. And Dilfer still won a Super Bowl - and if you listen to him you would think he did it all by himself. Poor chap
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  #15  
Old 06.01.2010, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by VABrit View Post
So for Orton's so called problems you put down to bubble screens and 6 yd passes. Orton doesn't call the plays - not really his problem. He has an arm strong enough to play in the NFL. His arm is not as strong as Cutler's was. His decision making is. It is as strong as Matt Schaub's arm - I'll take that. As I say what he did at Purdue showed he has a strong arm. Against the Redskins he showed the deep ball. In fact in game one he zipped a 30 yarder to Marshall which Marshall dropped. Bear in mind Orton's ankle never fully recovered after the Redskins game - it needs the offseason to and that he had a broken finger for 3 weeks didn't help the zip. Though his throws were better than Simms, who is not a QB, certainly not in the NFL. I seriously think he could be gone.

Now Orton needs a good supporting cast. When the O line collapsed it collapsed. Peyton Manning is a freak the way he releases the ball quickly - a normal QB such as Orton has to take what he can when the upfront blocking is poor. Also the drops were just unacceptable and in the 2nd year of this system the RBs will become more involved and there will be an increase in the importance of the slot receiver - look for Royal to be in the slot a lot. Imagine him getting manned up by a LB - he will be gone!

Oh, and bubble screens are actually quite complex for what they are. And Dilfer still won a Super Bowl - and if you listen to him you would think he did it all by himself. Poor chap
know your right orton don't call the plays its mcd, this is my point.
was orton mcds first choice, no it was cassell- so with the cutler trade, we end up with orton who is all said and done an nfl qback,but what i saw of him in chicago a limited one at that,orton doesn't go through his progressions quick enough,can't improvise if a play breaks down, then gets despewrate when the game gets on the line..
ok the kc game,i was getting concerned about the passes to gaffney, he was looking for him at one stage on almost every play,
sooner or later the picks were coming, didn't expect 2 pick6's but thats what happens when you become 1 dimensional...
running moreno up the gut doesn't seem to work, you can't blame the o-line because when buckhalter carries he seems to have better success than knowshon, who normally falls at first contact..
why not sweep and stretch plays for moreno, or pass to him in the flats,get him to the outside more
why no playaction, why no bootlegs, because orton can't run...

so none or rare misdirection plays...

also this short passing,trime consuming drive scheme..

makes there safeties and corners cheat up, they know we're gonna dump it short, so they don't fear the home run, vertical bomb, the redskins game was the only evidence i saw of actually scheming for this type of game, everything else that orton through in games was long aimless bombs out of desperation...

needless to say he can throw it deep, so its the head coach playcalling again...
why use scheffler as a blocking t.e when its obvious he's a better receiver, that don't make a lot of sense, why not utilize him more by running out patterns between 8-10 yards, by all means if your gonna play this dink and dunk scheme then show some variety,i'm really confused about royal..
last year he had a great season, this year he has been overlooked the thought of him being in the slot upagainst linebackers creating mismatches is great, but does mcdaniels look anywhere else, other than one primary receiver, i won't mention names but you know where i'm coming from...
no trick or gadget plays, jesus this short offensive scheme is ideal for a flea-flicker or the half back option pass, what with there D, IN TIGHT PRESS COVERAGE..

but we don't see none of this,morenos got to learn to pick up the blitzes on passing plays, because a few times the pass rush had already sacked orton before moreno reacted...

in a nutshell theres not enough variety in my opinion for this offence to function, your putting to much on your D, they can only give you so many chances..

our red zone offence this year, was predictable, fades and hb dives, tell me you didn't know what was coming on 4th and 1 after moreno had been hit in the backfield again on 3rd down..

you seem confident that royal will be here next year, lets hope so..

is it all on orton, probably not, but a lot of the playcalling hasn't helped him, and his lack of scrambling ability won't work in this system either, he'll end up operating out of max protect 2 t.e sets so he can get his passes off, this o-line was dominant for the first 6 games, which tells me that a good team doesn't become a bad team, without a load of unrest in the locker room...
certainly been a jekyll and hide team...
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  #16  
Old 06.01.2010, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by orangecrush7 View Post
so with the cutler trade, we end up with orton who is all said and done an nfl qback,but what i saw of him in chicago a limited one at that,orton doesn't go through his progressions quick enough,can't improvise if a play breaks down, then gets despewrate when the game gets on the line..
His speed of progressions has improved. I do believe Chicago made Orton what he is especially after Purdue where he was very good at checking down. I think Chicago gave him a couple of options and that was it. I do think he has improved in his progression reading - I also think he is not sold on some of the checkdowns and chucks it away. Now throwing the ball away is smart, far smarter than trying to make something happen when one should not.

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Originally Posted by orangecrush7 View Post
ok the kc game,i was getting concerned about the passes to gaffney, he was looking for him at one stage on almost every play,
Can't disagree - it looked good when it was working early on and many felt a little smug. But it was very on dimensional and prevented the running game to get going - which as you know beat the Chiefs earlier on.


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Originally Posted by orangecrush7 View Post
running moreno up the gut doesn't seem to work, you can't blame the o-line because when buckhalter carries he seems to have better success than knowshon, who normally falls at first contact..
why not sweep and stretch plays for moreno, or pass to him in the flats
You can blame the Oline - they are a zone blocking Oline. On 15 running plays in the Eagles game there were 3 or more OL in the Denver backfield - 12 on Sunday. That is an Oline problem. We will benefit from the return of Harris -I hope he is fully recovered. But we need a new interior. Knowshon is a hard-nose runner, though if the first thing he does is to try and get rid of two DL he isn't going to be able to.

I agree with using the RBs more in the passing attack. Buckhalter did that well for the Eagles - it would good to be see that. As it would getting to the outside. When we have guards who can trap and pull at speed I think that will really build our running game.


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Originally Posted by orangecrush7 View Post
vertical bomb
Everything you said about that was right - we didn't stretch teams enough when we could have. In fairness, the Raiders, Redskins, Giants and Chargers gave us the deep ball. You would therefore think we could put something in there for the other teams as we needed it.

Again, I go back to Shanahan's first year to his second - looked like 2 different offenses. This is what I expect from McD. More depth in the playbook and playcalling.

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why use scheffler as a blocking t.e when its obvious he's a better receiver, that don't make a lot of sense, why not utilize him more by running out patterns between 8-10 yards,
He was thrown to as many times as last year. I think Scheffler's production was down and I am going to put this one on him. Quinn looked a good fit at TE and apart from the Chiefs game Daniel Graham can do what Scheffler can too.

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last year he had a great season, this year he has been overlooked the thought of him being in the slot upagainst linebackers creating mismatches is great
Now regarding Eddie Royal - he was very banged up - even when he played he was banged up. He was running awkwardly with allsorts of extra padding. think McD had decided that Stokely was his Welker. Whilst he is a good possession receiver he lacks the speed or the quick cut on routes. I am hoping McD has now had time to evaluate and puts Royal in the slot and different positions. He could be a number one receiver but if as you said we are going to dink and dunk then at least when healthy he can get good YAC. I don't want to see a starting WR as a PR though!


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morenos got to learn to pick up the blitzes
Agreed - he missed a block when Orton got injured and either can't stand up to the Blitz or picks up the wrong assignment.

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Originally Posted by orangecrush7 View Post
in a nutshell theres not enough variety in my opinion for this offence to function, your putting to much on your D, they can only give you so many chances..
The D looked tired on many an occassion. Again, I go back to Shanahan's first year to his second - looked like 2 different offenses. This is what I expect from McD. More depth in the playbook and playcalling. More variety is needed and we should expect it next year.



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Originally Posted by orangecrush7 View Post
our red zone offence this year, was predictable, fades and hb dives, tell me you didn't know what was coming on 4th and 1 after moreno had been hit in the backfield again on 3rd down..
The Red Zone playcalling annoyed me at times too. We drive down the field using runs and then try passing. Or we are successful at passing then try and run it. At times it looked like we would settle for a FG and get out of there.

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Originally Posted by orangecrush7 View Post
you seem confident that royal will be here next year, lets hope so..
He's a hard worker - a fierce competitor and loves football. A healthy Royal be a big addition to us.

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Originally Posted by orangecrush7 View Post
is it all on orton, probably not, but a lot of the playcalling hasn't helped him, and his lack of scrambling ability won't work in this system either
I'm hoping that if this is supposed to develop into what New England runs then really he shouldn't have to scramble anywhere anyhow. Lets hope thats the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangecrush7 View Post
this o-line was dominant for the first 6 games, which tells me that a good team doesn't become a bad team
But a banged up one does. Was this the only reason? As you said of course not. What happens in the confinement of the team has an impact as does the media, as does the confidence.

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been a jekyll and hide team.
Yes it has. And that is what frustrates us as fans - if we were the 4-12 Chiefs we would know where we stand. But we've seen two sides. We have been affected by the Media, players attitudes, coaching decisions, front office decisions and injuries. Because of all of that the 9 months we have to wait until next season will be squirmish at best!
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  #17  
Old 06.01.2010, 01:12 PM
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wow this has gone on a bit lol, just one point that does frustrate me, orangecrush you say about the vertical passing game, i agree i feel it was practically non existant, there are reasons such as the orton finger and knee, but marshall is as good a deep threat as you will get pretty much, should have used it, teams would have gameplanned for it no matter how well ortons deep ball is.

but as you both say the only time i saw deep ball threats was the redskins game, and it was killing them before the injury, and this was the redskins D that was the top passing defense in the league at the point we played them. now the question i have is, what could have we done to the chiefs and raider is we had used it more effectively, and personally i dont think its ortons fault, he showed he can throw it well enough to make teams respect it
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  #18  
Old 06.01.2010, 03:45 PM
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I'm not sure if Marshall has the top end speed to be a consistent vertical threat, not with our current o-line blocking at the mo.
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  #19  
Old 06.01.2010, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by orangecrush7 View Post
give brandstater or simms a few more snaps..
Chris Simms made Orton look like John Elway when he played this year, I hope I never see him take another snap for Denver.

I think Orton did well this season, some of the play calling was quite conservative so prehaps it might open up in 2010. I thought he did a good job the few times he threw a deep ball this season. I think Ortons problem is he relies too much on a single receiver. I would agree that Orton isnt the long term answer in Denver but I think he'll do in the interim. I would like to see what Brandstater can do though...
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  #20  
Old 06.01.2010, 04:55 PM
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There isn't one - get over it. We are luckier than we think with Orton..
Yuhve Made It Out As If Im Against Orton Wen I Explained I Was A Fan
If You Read What I Said You Wuld Of Noticed
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