Draft 2016 - Page 16 - NFL UK Forums
NFL UK Mobile Logo

Go Back   NFL UK Forums > 32 NFL Teams > Dallas Cowboys

Sponsored Links

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 03.05.2016, 04:17 PM
Majicman's Avatar
Majicman Majicman is offline
Starter
 
Join Date: 02.09.2010
Posts: 100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCunliffe View Post
Usually it takes time to transition from 43 to 34. Chicago are the latest example that I think of. They drafted Eddie Goldman, DT, in rd 2 last year, then Leonard Floyd, OLB, and Jon Bullard, DE, in rounds 1 and 3 this year. They added pieces last off season and this too.

When Bill Parcells became the Cowboys HC he wanted to run a 34, but iirc he had to wait until his first draft class and off season to start the transition. They added Demarcus Ware (11th overall) as a OLB/pass rusher and Marcus Spears (20th overall) as a 5 tech DE. Parcells actually wanted Spears at 11, thankfully he was convinced otherwise (by Bryan Broaddus perhaps). he brought in Jason Ferguson to play the NT too.

Anyway, to run a 34 you need that NT. A 320lb run stuffer, ala Vince Wilfork. We don't have one of them, and they are hard to find. We have plenty of pieces to play DE if needs be, Tyrone Crawford, David Irving, Cedric Thornton, and Charles Tapper now too. Gregory, Lawrence and Mayowa can probably transition to OLB in time. You could try Maliek Collins at NT but he'd need to bulk up I think, and you'd have to scheme for him. Jay Ratliff used to play NT in the Cowboys 34, he was undersized, but they schemed to his strengths.

At inside linebacker McClain is a good fit due to his size, but he's year to year it seems. Lee could play the WILB but they wanted to protect him from blockers with his move to WILL in the 43, playing inside in a 34 is tough sledding. Jaylon Smith can play 34 or 43, he can play WILB or WOLB. Not sure where a 34 leaves Hitchens, Wilson and Nzeocha.

So although they have some pieces in the front 7 they'd have to add another OLB, another ILB maybe, they'd have to find a true 34 NT, and another 34 DE too. That's either a good Free Agency and Draft or 2 Draft's to feel like you have the right pieces in place.

If RM left I think Matt Eberflus (Passing Game Co-ordinator and LB Coach) would take over and keep the same scheme in place. I think he's being groomed for that role. Obviously if JG left too it could result in a complete overhaul of everything.
Thanks for that. Jerry would hate to rip it all up and recruit from outside. But I do wonder at some point in the future whether we have a HC in the mould of BP who insists on doing it his way.

I wonder what JG is thinking right now. Very pleased to have EE on board but I wonder if he is thinking just to get the ship back on track in 2016 or what state the team will be in 2017-2020?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #152  
Old 03.05.2016, 04:37 PM
RichardCunliffe's Avatar
RichardCunliffe RichardCunliffe is offline
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: 13.09.2006
Posts: 17,514
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majicman View Post
Thanks for that. Jerry would hate to rip it all up and recruit from outside. But I do wonder at some point in the future whether we have a HC in the mould of BP who insists on doing it his way.

I wonder what JG is thinking right now. Very pleased to have EE on board but I wonder if he is thinking just to get the ship back on track in 2016 or what state the team will be in 2017-2020?
I don't think JG can afford to look beyond 2016. He can't go 4-12 again, but he knows a lot depends on keeping Romo healthy. That's the same for all 32 teams though, you aren't going to win 12 games if you lose your starting QB for the season.

It would take a HC like BP to get JJ to see things differently, and even BP faced opposition on some things. That said, we aren't too far away from a time when Stephen Jones has an equal say in things.

JG is Jerry's 'guy'. I could see him and Tony Romo being tied together. If Tony Romo fails, JG fails, then they could both be let go a couple of years from now. Jerry might then be looking at a Jimmy Johnson/Troy Aikman like makeover if he's still around.

The play-offs are the goal for 2016. The NFC East has improved on paper at least, especially the Giants. So I'd say if they win the division that's a good season for JG, anything after that is a bonus.
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 04.05.2016, 08:09 AM
Majicman's Avatar
Majicman Majicman is offline
Starter
 
Join Date: 02.09.2010
Posts: 100
Default

Bryan Broadus said on Cowboys Break that the Patriots had removed Smith from their draft board. Cowboys had information that they were going to take him in the second round and wanted to jump ahead of them.
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 04.05.2016, 09:19 AM
RichardCunliffe's Avatar
RichardCunliffe RichardCunliffe is offline
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: 13.09.2006
Posts: 17,514
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majicman View Post
Bryan Broadus said on Cowboys Break that the Patriots had removed Smith from their draft board. Cowboys had information that they were going to take him in the second round and wanted to jump ahead of them.
Even the teams don't know what to trust. Post draft it's even worse because teams aren't going to admit to being wrong or missing out on a player they wanted.

Speaking of 2nd round picks.......Every Cowboys 2nd round pick since 2000:

(Year/Name/Position/Draft Pick)

2016 - Jaylon Smith, LB. - 34 - Great player, might never play.
2015 - Randy Gregory, DE - 60 - Question marks on the field, Drug addiction off the field.
2014 - Demarcus Lawrence, DE - 34 - 8 sacks in 23 games. 4 game suspension.
2013 - Gavin Escobar, TE - 47 - 26 catches in 3 seasons, tore Achilles in December 2015.
2012 - TRADED to move up for Mo Claibourne - Claibourne could be a 'bust'.
2011 - Bruce Carter, LB - 40 - 49 games, 242 tackles, never lived up to his 'potential'.
2010 - Sean Lee, LB - 55 - Injury jinxed, never played a full season to date, Pro Bowler when healthy. 422 Tackles.
2009 - TRADED to the Bills for 3rd and 4th round picks.
2008 - Martellus Bennett, TE - 61- 4 seasons, 85 catches, 846 yards.
2007 - TRADED to move up for Anthony Spencer - 104 games, 385 tackles, 33 sacks. 11 sacks in 2012 before injury derailed his career.
2006 - Anthony Fasano, TE - 53 - 2 seasons, 28 catches, 289 yards.
2005 - Kevin Burnett, LB - 42 - 4 seasons, 146 tackles.
2004 - Julius Jones, RB - 43 - 885 carries, 3454 yards rushing. 3.9 yards per carry.
2004 - Jacob Rogers, OT - 52 - Played 2 games. Placed on I.R, never played again.
2003 - Al Johnson, C - 38 - Injured as a rookie, 4 seasons, 31 starts.
2002 - Andre Gurode, G - 37 - 9 seasons, 122 starts. 5 time Pro Bowler.
2002 - Antonio Bryant, WR - 63 - 3 seasons, 99 receptions, 1549 yards. Discipline issues, traded to Browns.
2001 - Quincy Carter, QB - 53 - 31 games. 507 completions, 5,839 yards, 29 TD's, 36 INT's. Released after failing multiple drug tests.
2001 - Tony Dixon, DB - 56 - 5 seasons, 109 tackles.
2000 - Dwayne Goodrich, CB - 49 - Started 1 game, convicted of hit and run, spent 8 years in prison.

20 picks in 16 years. Sean Lee and Andre Gurode are the only Pro Bowlers. 5 picks affected by off the field issues, drugs mainly. 5 with injury issues (6 if you include Lee). At least 5 that didn't make it past their rookie contract.

That list is shambolic.
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 04.05.2016, 11:41 AM
Majicman's Avatar
Majicman Majicman is offline
Starter
 
Join Date: 02.09.2010
Posts: 100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCunliffe View Post
Even the teams don't know what to trust. Post draft it's even worse because teams aren't going to admit to being wrong or missing out on a player they wanted.

Speaking of 2nd round picks.......Every Cowboys 2nd round pick since 2000:

(Year/Name/Position/Draft Pick)

2016 - Jaylon Smith, LB. - 34 - Great player, might never play.
2015 - Randy Gregory, DE - 60 - Question marks on the field, Drug addiction off the field.
2014 - Demarcus Lawrence, DE - 34 - 8 sacks in 23 games. 4 game suspension.
2013 - Gavin Escobar, TE - 47 - 26 catches in 3 seasons, tore Achilles in December 2015.
2012 - TRADED to move up for Mo Claibourne - Claibourne could be a 'bust'.
2011 - Bruce Carter, LB - 40 - 49 games, 242 tackles, never lived up to his 'potential'.
2010 - Sean Lee, LB - 55 - Injury jinxed, never played a full season to date, Pro Bowler when healthy. 422 Tackles.
2009 - TRADED to the Bills for 3rd and 4th round picks.
2008 - Martellus Bennett, TE - 61- 4 seasons, 85 catches, 846 yards.
2007 - TRADED to move up for Anthony Spencer - 104 games, 385 tackles, 33 sacks. 11 sacks in 2012 before injury derailed his career.
2006 - Anthony Fasano, TE - 53 - 2 seasons, 28 catches, 289 yards.
2005 - Kevin Burnett, LB - 42 - 4 seasons, 146 tackles.
2004 - Julius Jones, RB - 43 - 885 carries, 3454 yards rushing. 3.9 yards per carry.
2004 - Jacob Rogers, OT - 52 - Played 2 games. Placed on I.R, never played again.
2003 - Al Johnson, C - 38 - Injured as a rookie, 4 seasons, 31 starts.
2002 - Andre Gurode, G - 37 - 9 seasons, 122 starts. 5 time Pro Bowler.
2002 - Antonio Bryant, WR - 63 - 3 seasons, 99 receptions, 1549 yards. Discipline issues, traded to Browns.
2001 - Quincy Carter, QB - 53 - 31 games. 507 completions, 5,839 yards, 29 TD's, 36 INT's. Released after failing multiple drug tests.
2001 - Tony Dixon, DB - 56 - 5 seasons, 109 tackles.
2000 - Dwayne Goodrich, CB - 49 - Started 1 game, convicted of hit and run, spent 8 years in prison.

20 picks in 16 years. Sean Lee and Andre Gurode are the only Pro Bowlers. 5 picks affected by off the field issues, drugs mainly. 5 with injury issues (6 if you include Lee). At least 5 that didn't make it past their rookie contract.

That list is shambolic.
Really bad, hard to pick the worst (I'll go for Rogers). I would even argue Pro Bowlers Lee and Gurode were picked too high
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 04.05.2016, 12:15 PM
RichardCunliffe's Avatar
RichardCunliffe RichardCunliffe is offline
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: 13.09.2006
Posts: 17,514
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majicman View Post
Really bad, hard to pick the worst (I'll go for Rogers). I would even argue Pro Bowlers Lee and Gurode were picked too high
Rogers was a shocker. The Cowboys would love Lee to be playing 16 games a season, missing all of 2014 was a nightmare, but hopefully 2015 is a sign of things to come for the next 3 years or so. If you draft a 5 time Pro Bowler (Gurode) in the 2nd round I think you have to be ok with that.

Going back to 2013-2006, with hindsight:

2012 - Traded 1.14 and 2.45 for Mo. Michael Brockers and Alshon Jeffrey went at those picks.
2011 - They love drafting TE's in round 2, Kyle Rudolph was selected 3 picks after Bruce Cater.
2010 - Sean Lee is too good when healthy, you can't be too harsh about this pick.
2009 - Lesean McCoy was available but they traded away and drafted Robert Brewster and Victor Butler! that is really bad business.
2008 - Again, hindsight, but Jamaal Charles went 12 picks after Martellus Bennett. they used the 22nd overall pick on Felix Jones. Hmmmm.
2007 - Traded 3 picks to go get Anthony Spencer. Not a terrible pick pre-injury, but they could have had Eric Weddle at pick 36 and still had their 3rd and 5th round picks as well.
2006 - Devin Hester went 4 picks after the Cowboys took Anthony Fasano. they needed a 2nd TE at the time, but a kick returner of Hester's ability wouldn't have gone a miss either.
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 04.05.2016, 12:32 PM
Majicman's Avatar
Majicman Majicman is offline
Starter
 
Join Date: 02.09.2010
Posts: 100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCunliffe View Post
Rogers was a shocker. The Cowboys would love Lee to be playing 16 games a season, missing all of 2014 was a nightmare, but hopefully 2015 is a sign of things to come for the next 3 years or so. If you draft a 5 time Pro Bowler (Gurode) in the 2nd round I think you have to be ok with that.

Going back to 2013-2006, with hindsight:

2012 - Traded 1.14 and 2.45 for Mo. Michael Brockers and Alshon Jeffrey went at those picks.
2011 - They love drafting TE's in round 2, Kyle Rudolph was selected 3 picks after Bruce Cater.
2010 - Sean Lee is too good when healthy, you can't be too harsh about this pick.
2009 - Lesean McCoy was available but they traded away and drafted Robert Brewster and Victor Butler! that is really bad business.
2008 - Again, hindsight, but Jamaal Charles went 12 picks after Martellus Bennett. they used the 22nd overall pick on Felix Jones. Hmmmm.
2007 - Traded 3 picks to go get Anthony Spencer. Not a terrible pick pre-injury, but they could have had Eric Weddle at pick 36 and still had their 3rd and 5th round picks as well.
2006 - Devin Hester went 4 picks after the Cowboys took Anthony Fasano. they needed a 2nd TE at the time, but a kick returner of Hester's ability wouldn't have gone a miss either.
Agree about Gurode, but I think it was Parcells who got on his case a bit as he at first was not working out. Shame about Lee a good pick but with hindsight I don't think should have been made as he has missed too many games. Hopefully he continues to stay on the field.
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 04.05.2016, 02:54 PM
RichardCunliffe's Avatar
RichardCunliffe RichardCunliffe is offline
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: 13.09.2006
Posts: 17,514
Default

In todays MMQB mail bag someone raised a good point about the Lynch trade attempts. If you are happy to trade a 2nd and 3rd to draft Lynch at 20 or 21, then why not at 26? Why try to get 'smart' and only offer a 2nd + 4th instead.

I totally agree with this. If you are happy to give up a 2nd + 3rd for Lynch then it shouldn't matter if it's at 23, 26 or 29. I do the exact same thing in the mock draft on here when it comes to trying to make trades. If you set a price you are willing to pay then as you move down the board that remains your best offer. Obviously you don't over pay straight off the bat, but if push comes to shove then you've already decided what you are happy to pay. so what if you 'over pay', you still get the guy you wanted all along.
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 04.05.2016, 03:39 PM
Majicman's Avatar
Majicman Majicman is offline
Starter
 
Join Date: 02.09.2010
Posts: 100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCunliffe View Post
In todays MMQB mail bag someone raised a good point about the Lynch trade attempts. If you are happy to trade a 2nd and 3rd to draft Lynch at 20 or 21, then why not at 26? Why try to get 'smart' and only offer a 2nd + 4th instead.

I totally agree with this. If you are happy to give up a 2nd + 3rd for Lynch then it shouldn't matter if it's at 23, 26 or 29. I do the exact same thing in the mock draft on here when it comes to trying to make trades. If you set a price you are willing to pay then as you move down the board that remains your best offer. Obviously you don't over pay straight off the bat, but if push comes to shove then you've already decided what you are happy to pay. so what if you 'over pay', you still get the guy you wanted all along.
I just don't understand it. Another thing that is bothering me was we were told that Will McClay was having a big say in the draft process. I assume this must be regarding the players not the actual trades. From what I could see Steven Jones mans the phone and relays everything back to Jerry who still seems to be calling the shots. Jason Garrett isn't involved at all but is kept in the loop. I think you need one voice in charge like every other team.
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 04.05.2016, 04:33 PM
RichardCunliffe's Avatar
RichardCunliffe RichardCunliffe is offline
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: 13.09.2006
Posts: 17,514
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majicman View Post
I just don't understand it. Another thing that is bothering me was we were told that Will McClay was having a big say in the draft process. I assume this must be regarding the players not the actual trades. From what I could see Steven Jones mans the phone and relays everything back to Jerry who still seems to be calling the shots. Jason Garrett isn't involved at all but is kept in the loop. I think you need one voice in charge like every other team.
I think one influences the other in terms of trades and players. Broaddus has been saying that Lynch was the 12th rated player on their board. Now I don't know how to interpret all the comments regarding their board because a number of names have been thrown about. (Will revisit that in a minute).

I trust that McClay has a big part to play in evaluation, although on draft weekend he'll always be 'pushed to the side' by Jerry and Stephen. Stephen seems to have taken over the phones from Jerry, but all the owners and GM's have relationships from years past so it's no surprise that McClay isn't involved too heavily on the trades/phones side of things.

If the 12th best player on your board, at a position of 'need', is available at pick 19 then you have to start investigating if you can get up to get him. Obviously 19 seems to be the point in the draft where they thought their 2nd + 3rd picks would be enough to get it done. Now Will McClay will be part of painting the bigger picture i.e. what players might they have at 34 + 67, what are you giving up in terms of players, and what you might find later on in rounds 4 and 6. he might be 'off to the side', literally, but he'll be involved. JG just seems to sit in his chair and smile a lot, or stare into empty space.

From MMQB 'Jerry Jones, one observer said, turned to Garrett right about here and said: “The question is, can we really afford to lose two good players—good players—and take a guy as a hedge for the future? I think I’d rather give this two and three and have Lynch … or have [Mississippi State quarterback] Dak [Prescott] in the fourth.”

So no mention of Coonor Cook? The guy you tried to trade up for? Before taking Prescott? This is why I can't trust all this 100%.

Back to the board though. Did they take the 2 QB's (Goff and Wentz) off their board to begin with knowing they were going 1 & 2? Did it look like this:

Goff?
Wentz?
Bosa?

1a Ezekiel Elliott
1b Jalen Ramsey

3 Leonard Floyd

Deforest Buckner?
Sheldon Rankins?
Vernon Hargreves?
Laremy Tunsil?

12 Paxton Lynch
13 Emmanual Ogbah
14 Jaylon Smith
15 Myles Jack?
16 Noah Spence?

Shaq Lawson must have been lower than Lynch?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
draft 2016 , nfluk

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links


All times are GMT +0. The time now is 02:41 AM.