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  #16141  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:22 PM
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So the Donald urges European states to take back their citizens who went to join IS and put them on trial but refuses to allow a US citizen back in to his country.
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  #16142  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:41 PM
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So the Donald urges European states to take back their citizens who went to join IS and put them on trial but refuses to allow a US citizen back in to his country.
Are you surprised?
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  #16143  
Old 21.02.2019, 12:43 PM
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Are you surprised?
Not in the slightest.
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  #16144  
Old 21.02.2019, 05:52 PM
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So the Donald urges European states to take back their citizens who went to join IS and put them on trial but refuses to allow a US citizen back in to his country.

because the fella is pure comedy like when he said if they dont take them back he will just release them.
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  #16145  
Old 21.02.2019, 09:15 PM
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not sure if this independent group is going to be a stable faction or any good in general but if they can help get the Kyle amendment passed they it will have a positive in its column.



the Kyle amendment seems to be what i have long hoped for in reasonable manner and likely the best hope for May and her deal too.

it would mean a remain vs May deal referendum.


so we avoid the no deal and have a shot at staying too, referendum could go either way.



May gets her shot at winning with her deal and its a final decision.
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  #16146  
Old 21.02.2019, 10:23 PM
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The thing with the Independent Group is that they don't need to be united on every single issue, any more than other Labour/Conservative MPs are. Broad church and all that.
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  #16147  
Old 23.02.2019, 09:54 PM
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...just because someone has it and some ill informed clown who thinks we should deport terrorists or build a prison on the Isle of Wight (I heard this one posited yesterday) might be setting just the sort of legal precedent that allows the government of the day to do all sorts of unpalatable and sinister things.
I appreciate this is not coming from you, but it is funny. For anyone who has been to the Isle of Wight (or who lives there!), it is difficult to miss the fact that there are already two prisons on the Isle of Wight (Parkhurst and Albany). There were three.

This idea may have come from Skyfall, in which the baddie is being transported to a top security prison on the Isle of Wight. Which makes it sound like Alcatraz, rather than the pleasant family holiday spot that it is.
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  #16148  
Old 23.02.2019, 10:22 PM
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Anyway. It's a slippery slope, no doubt. Should we be tough on terrorists or offer counseling to a traffic'd minor? I agree with you Bob, that getting 'tough' with Begum ducks the root cause of the issue; that of a disaffected young girl feeling the only place she's feel truly at home is the wasteland that is ISIS's Syria?? What must living in Bethnal Green be like if that's an attractive option? It's shameful that we don't accept at least some responsibility in all this.
I used to work in Bethnal Green. Not yet one of the gentrified parts of East London. But hardly a war zone.

It's not the place. It's not Islam. It's not even Wahhabism exactly. While this is an extremely strict and intolerant version of Islam, most Wahhabists get on with their lives without becoming terrorists. But all movements have fringe elements that take it too far.

The fringe elements of Labour are Class War and they demonstrate and publish a newspaper. Following their own beliefs is not enough. They feel compelled to take action. Likewise, the very fringe elements of Christianity wear sandwich boards or proselytise through loudhailers on street corners. They take their faith very literally and are moved to act.

When the fringe elements of Wahhabism are moved to act by literal interpretation, this can manifest in violence, because as nice as we want to be about it, there are exhortations to violence in the Koran. If Jesus had reportedly told his disciples to slay unbelievers, then the sandwich boards would come down and those people would be taking up arms instead.

Ultimately, we all seem to agree on this. She evidently is a British citizen and she needs to come back to face justice, for any crimes she has committed. I am sure there will be some, although she doesn't seem to have done any overt acts. If holding outrageous views were illegal, Katie Hopkins would be banged up already.

If she were a thief or a fraudster, we would be trying our hardest to extradite her!

She is an idiot though. If her actions and remarks don't prove that, her wish to return to the UK does. She will always be the Jihadi bride. She will probably be happier in the refugee camp than being chased around Britain by the tabloid press and it's attendant nutters.
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  #16149  
Old 25.02.2019, 02:09 PM
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If she were a thief or a fraudster, we would be trying our hardest to extradite her!

She is an idiot though. If her actions and remarks don't prove that, her wish to return to the UK does. She will always be the Jihadi bride. She will probably be happier in the refugee camp than being chased around Britain by the tabloid press and it's attendant nutters.
Or if she were a foreign terrorist! See for example the cases of the Russian guys suspected of the Salisbury attacks. The UK has asked for them to be extradited here.

I suspect a lot of it has to do with the fact that they know Begum probably hasn't done too much wrong under British law that she could be prosecuted for, or that she could be jailed for for any meaningful length of time. So the truth is that by law she should be free to assimilate back into society, either right away or before too long. And sometimes the truth is unpalatable. In the case of the two Russians, if you bring them here you can lock them up for murder and attempted murder and various add-ons, I imagine. Whereas if you leave them in Russia, you know nothing will happen. Whereas with Begum, she will probably suffer more in a refugee camp, or Bangladesh, or wherever she ends up than she will back here. Unfortunately, large swathes of the population, including many who purport to follow the religion of forgiveness, just want to see people they don't like suffer, regardless of the legal position.

If Qatar rang up Begum tomorrow and said all was forgiven and would you like to come to ours and stay for free in a massive luxury palace by the sea that we will build for you, the same people who say she should be stripped of UK citizenship and not allowed to return would suddenly be haranguing the British government to get her back here.
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  #16150  
Old 25.02.2019, 03:23 PM
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Anyone tune in to Teresa Mays press conference at the end of the EU/Arab summit today?

That women is taking pig headed stubbornness to a whole new level.
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