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  #16041  
Old 29.01.2019, 07:39 PM
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May is still deluded, she is going to back to the EU who will tell her where to go.
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  #16042  
Old 29.01.2019, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by goodkarma84 View Post
May is still deluded, she is going to back to the EU who will tell her where to go.
but it gives her another 2 weeks of grace,think they have announced that feb 13th will be the next vote on her deal so does the Brady amendment if it goes through just mean a "slight" change of language then she can claim a better deal and its that or no deal now the Yvette Cooper amendment has failed.

it only takes 1 of the EU 27 to maybe open up the idea of a new round of talks and she can do a victory lap.
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  #16043  
Old 29.01.2019, 08:50 PM
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So, if i've got this correct the two votes that passed are 1 - to take no deal brexit off the table and 2 - to go back to the EU to re-open the backstop.

Kind of hard to square that circle.
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  #16044  
Old 29.01.2019, 08:58 PM
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So, if i've got this correct the two votes that passed are 1 - to take no deal brexit off the table and 2 - to go back to the EU to re-open the backstop.

Kind of hard to square that circle.
the "no deal" one is not legally binding but shows that parliament wants to be able to vote for a deal but if the EU wont budge on the back-stop language we are then stuck.

big news that Corbyn will now go and talk to the government.
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  #16045  
Old 29.01.2019, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tamar Raider View Post
So, if i've got this correct the two votes that passed are 1 - to take no deal brexit off the table and 2 - to go back to the EU to re-open the backstop.

Kind of hard to square that circle.
And Corbyn says he is prepared to meet the PM now that No Deal has been rejected. Now about those alternatives to the backstop...
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  #16046  
Old 29.01.2019, 10:36 PM
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the "no deal" one is not legally binding but shows that parliament wants to be able to vote for a deal but if the EU wont budge on the back-stop language we are then stuck.

big news that Corbyn will now go and talk to the government.
I don't see what difference it will make.

Even assuming the EU *does* agree to re-examine the deal, what alternative way is there of ensuring no hard border between Northern Ireland and Eire?

The backstop essentially keeps the whole of the UK in a customs union until a deal is hammered out. Anything else means a border. Either a border between NI and Eire (violating the Good Friday Agreement) or between NI and the mainland (the DUP won't accept this).

It is telling that Parliament does not even really know what it has voted for. Just "alternative arrangements". Parliament could vote for unicorns but that wouldn't make it happen.

I think we are just seeing the blame game play out here. Nobody wants to be held responsible for a hard Brexit so they vote to give May more time. Always more time. Just keep kicking the can down the road until ..oops!

Some Brexiters are claiming the EU will blink at the last moment. These people will be saying the same thing at 10pm on the 29th March. Then it won't happen, they'll blame the "irresponsible" EU and they will get what they want. Brexit at any cost in human misery. Ideological zealots.

These people are not playing the game at all. They like the score as it is and they are taking a knee.

May would rather keep the Tory party intact than make a success of Brexit. Corbyn is salivating over a no deal because he thinks the Tories will get blamed and he can ride a tide of discontent into Downing Street, where he can begin his Venezuelan revolution.
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  #16047  
Old 30.01.2019, 09:19 AM
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A strange evening yesterday? Looking at Graham Brady on the telly you'd think he'd found a cure for cancer or something. Parliament doesn't like the Backstop - now it's official? So what?

The radio this morning is just irresponsible. 1 station I caught said that we don't need a hard border because we can capture peoples number plates on camera? What part of WTO rules do they not understand? Obviously the part that insists on physical checks between non-regulatory aligned countries. What about the Good Friday Agreement then? That people are so willing to blithely side step an international peace treaty with such glib platitudes is beyond belief. Listen up: if untying this particular Gordian Knot is so easy then who cares about the Backstop? It'll never come into play so what is the problem? If it's not quite that simple however....

I wish Mrs May luck with her Brussels trip but early indications are not good. I think EU mouthpieces were saying no renegotiation within about 30 seconds of the vote? Maybe they will blink. I doubt it, but maybe they will.
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  #16048  
Old 30.01.2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
but it gives her another 2 weeks of grace,think they have announced that feb 13th will be the next vote on her deal so does the Brady amendment if it goes through just mean a "slight" change of language then she can claim a better deal and its that or no deal now the Yvette Cooper amendment has failed.

it only takes 1 of the EU 27 to maybe open up the idea of a new round of talks and she can do a victory lap.



we are stuck because of the Tories and there silly games.


as i said before the only way out is a second vote remain vs Mays deal, as thats the real option and the only possible out.



but instead May will continue to pretend its a toxic option out of some deluded loyalty to her mission. while also pretending that its the EUs fault for the deal and not being able to find a magic solution to big issues.
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  #16049  
Old 30.01.2019, 11:14 AM
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as i said before the only way out is a second vote remain vs Mays deal, as thats the real option and the only possible out.
I'm coming round to this. Sort of.

Parliament signaled pretty clearly that it will not allow a No Deal. Come mid Feb I think we'll have another vote on that if May's negotiations go nowhere and, while last nights indication wasn't binding, Parliament has already shown it's hand. Anyone listen to Corbyn last night? Lot's of twaddle of course but one little snippet was quite revealing. 600+ pieces of legislation need to be gone through in order to Leave because, guess what, leaving was never just about trade. There is no way they can get through a pile that big in 60 days, although it'll be considerably less time than that because of May's fruitless little jaunt in the next week or so.

So, May's negotiation almost certainly goes nowhere. Apparently Donald Tusk actually spoke to Mrs May BEFORE she stood up last night to tell her it had no chance. Parliament will not allow a No Deal. Impasse. Where else to go but some kind of 2nd vote? I just can't see another referendum though because quite what happens if Leave or Remain squeak a win is anyone's guess. Civil War maybe?

How about a Free Vote in Parliament? May's deal or Remain? Yes, all those idiots out there will shout it's a betrayal of Democracy but it wouldn't be a betrayal of Parliamentary Democracy would it. No doubt a few branches of Currys would get looted.

What a mess...

Last edited by LesterHayes; 30.01.2019 at 11:21 AM.
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  #16050  
Old 30.01.2019, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterHayes View Post
I'm coming round to this. Sort of.

Parliament signaled pretty clearly that it will not allow a No Deal. Come mid Feb I think we'll have another vote on that if May's negotiations go nowhere and, while last nights indication wasn't binding, Parliament has already shown it's hand. Anyone listen to Corbyn last night? Lot's of twaddle of course but one little snippet was quite revealing. 600+ pieces of legislation need to be gone through in order to Leave because, guess what, leaving was never just about trade. There is no way they can get through a pile that big in 60 days, although it'll be considerably less time than that because of May's fruitless little jaunt in the next week or so.

So, May's negotiation almost certainly goes nowhere. Apparently Donald Tusk actually spoke to Mrs May BEFORE she stood up last night to tell her it had no chance. Parliament will not allow a No Deal. Impasse. Where else to go but some kind of 2nd vote? I just can't see another referendum though because quite what happens if Leave or Remain squeak a win is anyone's guess. Civil War maybe?

How about a Free Vote in Parliament? May's deal or Remain? Yes, all those idiots out there will shout it's a betrayal of Democracy but it wouldn't be a betrayal of Parliamentary Democracy would it. No doubt a few branches of Currys would get looted.

What a mess...

i would say theres no hope for that at all.
(it would be ideal as i think remain wins given its in the best interest of the country and it could be over quite quickly compared to a referendum.)



firstly MPs lack the intestinal fortitude to do such a thing and neither party would release that control in that situation.



on top of that May and those on the brexit side already talk is a toxic manner about a second vote of the people, let alone if they were to end up completely ignoring the first vote.


so for me the gave the power to the people to make this awful mess and the reality is only the people can stop it.



they already won by a fairly narrow margin so reversing the mess would be fine by one

at least people know what they are getting this time.



its what the vote should of been the first time, two clear choices but dodgy Dave and the Tories decided to destroy a country for there power and party.
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