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  #16471  
Old 11.06.2019, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
yeah if you sat so,the threat of tariffs and deadlines never force people to finally agree and sign off on a new agreement.

amazing that the democrats/media who spent months saying there was no crisis at the border have again been proved wrong and Mexico is now going to enforce its southern border/clamp down on people smugglers.

the fact that even more people who sneak across the border will be returned to Mexico while there cases are heard is terrible news for those who just want them released into the states where they can just disappear.

but yeah another bad week for Trump according to all the people who spent 2+ years with there Russian collusion nothing burger.

the facts say so, its called reality

but like Trump you like to create your own reality


creating fictional wins doesnt make it a good week.



and the facts also say people turn up for court, rather than just disappearing, thats the fake news.


and we know Russia helped him and that he was working with them but a clear link (apart from him asking for and getting the help on tape,) wasnt proven. he still obstructed and that is hanging about.
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  #16472  
Old 11.06.2019, 08:44 PM
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and the facts also say people turn up for court, rather than just disappearing, thats the fake news.
well the numbers also show that from 2012 to 2016 in some years 75% turned up for court but in 2015 only 57% showed up so even in the best recent year 1 in 4 who where released and expected to turn up in court just disappeared.

the DOJ say in that 5 year run over 140,000 non detained immigrants where ordered to be deported because they where not present in court.
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  #16473  
Old 11.06.2019, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
well the numbers also show that from 2012 to 2016 in some years 75% turned up for court but in 2015 only 57% showed up so even in the best recent year 1 in 4 who where released and expected to turn up in court just disappeared.

the DOJ say in that 5 year run over 140,000 non detained immigrants where ordered to be deported because they where not present in court.

it often depends on the situation and legal advice being available too.
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  #16474  
Old 11.06.2019, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
didn't the EU only agree to another extension and tell our parliament not to waste it,if the MP's cant agree to something by October 31st is there any guarantee the EU will agree to another delay.
There is no guarantee at all. Macron wanted a shorter extension, after all, and I think while most in the EU disagreed with him at the time, more are coming round to his viewpoint now that nothing would change and the UK would just waste the time. My guess is that they will only agree to an extension if something material changes in the meantime. Which is probably a GE or another referendum. It won't just be someone saying 'can we go back to the negotiating table, I want more but I still want to keep all my red lines'.

There was a useful breakdown of the Tory membership in the Economist last week. Disproportionately male, disproportionately southern, extremely disproportionately white, better off, higher earners. But above all else, disproportionately old. It said that the average age of a Tory member is in their 50s, but that over half were OAPs. That's what gets to pick what is best for the whole country... 120,000 odd people like that. Only 300-odd of whom are democratically elected.

Honestly, anyone who criticises the EU for being undemocratic should look closer to home first. People complain about the EU parliament, but they are elected people. People complain about the EU commission or EU president, but they are all chosen by the heads of government of the member states, who are all elected (some directly, like in France, others indirectly, like in the UK. Very indirectly in the case of the next PM). And those heads of governments of course make up the European Council, which nobody much in Britain would have known, because nobody has ever made the effort to explain it to them. We have a situation where 120,000 people will choose the next prime minister without an election. And that's not even a knock on the Tory party, because it would be similar if it was Labour in charge and this happened too. I just think we in this country are not in a position to point fingers. Someone I know is married to an aspiring MP, and ultimately the decision as to whether you get elected are not made by the people, but by the local party associations. In most of the country, you know what whoever has the blue rosette or the red rosette (as the case may be) will win the seat, so the real battle isn't the election, it's getting yourself declared as the candidate. And those decisions are made by a really small number of people.
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  #16475  
Old 12.06.2019, 11:55 AM
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So Boris Johnson has just had his little leadership bid junket thing. Brexit gets a fairly quick mention and only 6 questions asked of which he sort of answered 1 (drugs) and ducked the other 5. Still, at least he's on record as not wanting a No Deal Brexit, not that Boris being on record about anything really counts for that much.

Strong rumors that he'll be keeping a very low profile and that senior colleagues are advocating he stay well clear of any press or TV. Fair enough in some ways because it won't be the general public that decide if he wins and we'll essentially have a PM whose policies we don't know and didn't vote for. Democracy eh?

Geoffrey Cox sounded pretty impressive though. Like being introduced by Gandalf.
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  #16476  
Old 12.06.2019, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
didn't the EU only agree to another extension and tell our parliament not to waste it
They did Lee. For once we agree on something! And what are we currently doing? At this moment at least half of the Tory party leadership candidates are suggesting we renegotiate our exit agreement or leave without a deal at the same time as the EU are confirming there's no opportunity to renegotiate and Parliament are voting on legislation to prevent No Deal??

Can the mods please lift the swearing ban on this site so I can try to convey how monumentally stupid this whole situation is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
if the MP's cant agree to something by October 31st is there any guarantee the EU will agree to another delay.
I think they would. On the 'material change' clause. I think it increasingly likely there's a GE in the autumn. For all of Boris's jolly hockey sticks optimism it'll take more than the guffawing of an upper class buffoon to change the deadlock in Parliament.
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  #16477  
Old 12.06.2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterHayes View Post
They did Lee. For once we agree on something! And what are we currently doing? At this moment at least half of the Tory party leadership candidates are suggesting we renegotiate our exit agreement or leave without a deal at the same time as the EU are confirming there's no opportunity to renegotiate and Parliament are voting on legislation to prevent No Deal??

Can the mods please lift the swearing ban on this site so I can try to convey how monumentally stupid this whole situation is?



I think they would. On the 'material change' clause. I think it increasingly likely there's a GE in the autumn. For all of Boris's jolly hockey sticks optimism it'll take more than the guffawing of an upper class buffoon to change the deadlock in Parliament.



i dont think thats the Boris/no deal Tory plan, i'm pretty sure its.


1) Boris STFU
2) Boris becomes leader
3) find a way to force a no deal, which likely involves muddying the waters and running out the clock, rather than an election. although Tory confidence in winning votes is what got May in a bigger mess.



its nothing short of a disgrace that a party is willing to crown him PM given his record.
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  #16478  
Old 12.06.2019, 04:08 PM
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what a shock party over country Tories refuse basic logic in a vote.
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  #16479  
Old 12.06.2019, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by goodkarma84 View Post
what a shock party over country Tories refuse basic logic in a vote.
maybe the opposition parties sponsoring this bill should have had something to show MP's rather than just been asked to vote on a blank page to be filled in sometime.
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  #16480  
Old 12.06.2019, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterHayes View Post
So Boris Johnson has just had his little leadership bid junket thing. Brexit gets a fairly quick mention and only 6 questions asked of which he sort of answered 1 (drugs) and ducked the other 5. Still, at least he's on record as not wanting a No Deal Brexit, not that Boris being on record about anything really counts for that much.

Strong rumors that he'll be keeping a very low profile and that senior colleagues are advocating he stay well clear of any press or TV. Fair enough in some ways because it won't be the general public that decide if he wins and we'll essentially have a PM whose policies we don't know and didn't vote for. Democracy eh?

Geoffrey Cox sounded pretty impressive though. Like being introduced by Gandalf.
maybe missing something but for all 10 candidates the only people that mattered over the last week or so and the next two are the MP's and that's where any serious contender should be spending there time and efforts.

Rory Stewart might have done more media than most and had great feed back but by the weekend he could be out the race while others survive.
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