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  #11261  
Old 10.07.2018, 10:29 PM
Nickelig Nickelig is offline
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Originally Posted by scurry View Post
What did Apple TV run at last season? I used it all year and thought it was near-TV quality (when it worked)
I mostly used the Xbox One App because it was still run by the old service and worked when Gamepass was down for all other devices... well until even the login didn‘t work anymore. It was 60 fps and perfect.

At times I used the app for my Apple TV 4k and it was the same quality as it is now, that is 30 fps, 1080p, which is imo a very unlucky choice... because 30 fps is 30 fps and also because 1080p with just 6mbit will have compression quality losses... 60fps 720p at 6mbit would make so much more sense.
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  #11262  
Old 10.07.2018, 10:32 PM
Nickelig Nickelig is offline
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Originally Posted by goodgrr View Post
Two things, first the new Game Pass App for Xbox has been available for a few weeks, the old one will no longer work.

If you get the new one and it doesn't work please let me know.

I have escalated my question about 30 Vs 60, will let you know when I hear back.
I will check tomorrow for the new app on xbox one, though my guess it won‘t have the 60fps anymore.

Thank you for escalating the issue, though I have no hopes to be honest. 60 fps 720p would be so much better than 30 fps 1080p but alot f people assume that higher resolution is the way to go... which is just false on sport streams.
  #11263  
Old 10.07.2018, 10:38 PM
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goodgrr goodgrr is offline
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This intrigues me a little. If you watch an American Football game on a movie, such as 'Any Given Sunday' I wouldn't say the motion is in any way juddery.

Movies are typically filmed at 24 frames a second which is fast enough to fool your eye into seeing it not as frames but as smooth motion.

How is it different when watched on a PC or App?
  #11264  
Old 10.07.2018, 10:59 PM
Nickelig Nickelig is offline
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Originally Posted by goodgrr View Post
This intrigues me a little. If you watch an American Football game on a movie, such as 'Any Given Sunday' I wouldn't say the motion is in any way juddery.

Movies are typically filmed at 24 frames a second which is fast enough to fool your eye into seeing it not as frames but as smooth motion.

How is it different when watched on a PC or App?
If you watch a movie, you are used to watch it in 24p, which is the typical cinema motion and not the same motion as when watching TV in 50/60fps. Have you heard of the soap opera effect? That is what happens when you use motionflow settings on your TV to give a 24p movie a 50/60fps feeling... which many people actually hate because the blockbuster movie suddenly looks like a cheap soap opera, hence the name.

So when you watch a sports stream in 30fps it is more or less as „smooth“ as a movie... but that is not the same as watching sports in TV via cable/sat, where you are used to the 50 or 60 fps. Here you actually want that soap opera feeling, so you use motionflow settings on your TV... but that is a problem with very fast moving small objects, like a football, a soccer ball, a tennis ball... the ball starts to flicker.

So with 30 fps sport streams you have to chose between a flickering ball or a motion, that feels less like a sports game and more like a movie. But with 60fps the experience would be just the same as if you watch the game via sat/cable.

Last edited by Nickelig; 10.07.2018 at 11:02 PM.
  #11265  
Old 12.07.2018, 10:27 AM
awestlake awestlake is offline
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Originally Posted by Nickelig View Post
So with 30 fps sport streams you have to chose between a flickering ball or a motion, that feels less like a sports game and more like a movie. But with 60fps the experience would be just the same as if you watch the game via sat/cable.
I can relate to this. I have Sky Q and watching a game on sky sports in HD just seems to be a lot smoother than watching one through gamepass in HD, although personally I don’t detect much flicker and both are watchable.

I have been offered the full pro package for £84.99 as I was an essentials subscriber last year. I’ll probably still go for it this year, although last season I found Sky sports to be more than adequate for my needs and didn’t make a lot of use of it.

I can’t see myself paying full price for this in 2019 though.
  #11266  
Old 12.07.2018, 02:54 PM
Nickelig Nickelig is offline
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Originally Posted by awestlake View Post
I can relate to this. I have Sky Q and watching a game on sky sports in HD just seems to be a lot smoother than watching one through gamepass in HD, although personally I don’t detect much flicker and both are watchable.

I have been offered the full pro package for £84.99 as I was an essentials subscriber last year. I’ll probably still go for it this year, although last season I found Sky sports to be more than adequate for my needs and didn’t make a lot of use of it.

I can’t see myself paying full price for this in 2019 though.
And that is the problem, I am now expected to pay the full price for less. I didn‘t receive a coupon for a reduced price for the 2018 season like many others did.

Why in the world would I want to pay 160€ for half the frame rate especially after they messed up in 2017? Keep in mind, they only reason why I and others didn‘t go totally ballistic was that we had the option to watch games on the xbox one, not only for the 60 fps but because it was the old service unaffacted by the Deltratre mess.

£85 sounds about right what the price should be considering the questionable reliability and the lesser picture quality.
  #11267  
Old 12.07.2018, 06:19 PM
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Came on to ask whether anyone else knew what was going on re 30fps v 60fps so glad to see it is being discussed.

The original NFL app on Xbox One and being able to watch content in 60fps was the main reason I even bought an Xbox One in the first place. I was very happy to see it largely unaffected last year. They can add on whatever superfluous features they wish to the new app, but unless they can offer the stream at 60fps it is something of a downgrade.

I've been watching the World Cup in 4K and HDR streamed via iPlayer near flawlessly. That might be a bit much to ask, but the technology is clearly there to at least offer 1080p @ 60fps or, at an absolute worst 720p @ 60fps. This is what we've been used to since 2016 after all.
  #11268  
Old 12.07.2018, 06:27 PM
Nickelig Nickelig is offline
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Originally Posted by chili View Post
Came on to ask whether anyone else knew what was going on re 30fps v 60fps so glad to see it is being discussed.

The original NFL app on Xbox One and being able to watch content in 60fps was the main reason I even bought an Xbox One in the first place. I was very happy to see it largely unaffected last year. They can add on whatever superfluous features they wish to the new app, but unless they can offer the stream at 60fps it is something of a downgrade.

I've been watching the World Cup in 4K and HDR streamed via iPlayer near flawlessly. That might be a bit much to ask, but the technology is clearly there to at least offer 1080p @ 60fps or, at an absolute worst 720p @ 60fps. This is what we've been used to since 2016 after all.
One user had contaced Deltatre about that (TOMillr, Page 1124) and they said that are working on their own app now for xbox one and that it will be limited to 30fps.

So if that‘s true and nothing changes, we will not have 60fps, not on xbox and not on any other apps as well. As you said, this is quite mind boggling, since at least 720p @ 60fps would easily be manageable with the current transfer rates they offer... if willing... and technically not being able to would be just laughable.

If the NFL ever wants to expand to UK/Europe, they better offer streaming services worthy of the 21st century.
  #11269  
Old 13.07.2018, 03:55 PM
MisterRambles MisterRambles is offline
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Not that I care anymore as I decided last season that I wouldn't subscribe to Deltatre's version of Gamepass, but it's worth noting that MLB. TV and NHL. TV are both 60fps. Not a fan of the NBA but certain that their streaming service will also be 60fps. Just re-enforces my belief that Gamepass is going to be a bargain bucket service where quality is sacrificed for profits.
A third rate service at best.
BTW, has anyone else noticed that they seem to have cut off Twitter support too?
  #11270  
Old 13.07.2018, 08:16 PM
Nickelig Nickelig is offline
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Originally Posted by MisterRambles View Post
Not that I care anymore as I decided last season that I wouldn't subscribe to Deltatre's version of Gamepass, but it's worth noting that MLB. TV and NHL. TV are both 60fps. Not a fan of the NBA but certain that their streaming service will also be 60fps. Just re-enforces my belief that Gamepass is going to be a bargain bucket service where quality is sacrificed for profits.
A third rate service at best.
BTW, has anyone else noticed that they seem to have cut off Twitter support too?
That is probably true. Whenever there is a change in service partner, it is either about money or quality. Quality was just great with Neulion, so it has to be money. Not sure how the revenue is divided between Deltatre and the NFL but surely Deltatre made a financially more lucrative offer to the NFL. So it was always clear to me, that the service would suffer. And we all saw what happened in 2017.

I just did not expect that 60fps would be gone completely. Especially since the NFL Gamepass is the most expensive of all US Sports streaming offers... which is especially said because it offers the least minutes and games. There are a dozen MLB games every single day for 162 days, all in 60fps and it costs alot less... wtf?

So really this looks more and more like a ripoff every single day.
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