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  #331  
Old 14.11.2018, 12:00 AM
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Oh, he's certainly about the money.

Not sure you can spin the quote that way, because if you want to call that "something preventing him from playing" then you're basically saying any hold out would be a "something". Because holdouts are always about the deal offered (or not offered). So that one doesn't work.

Bell has been all over the place. The only thing he has been consistent in is not talking to any teammates except Conner. And what was showing up in Pittsburgh at the end of last week all about and making a big deal on twitter about leaving Miami? Attention seeking, perhaps. The team did all it could do by the deadline in July. Bell is the one who has totally changed his tune between July and now. I think he's probably damaged his market with the way he has gone about this. He will still get offers. He might get very good ones. But he won't get as many as he would have a year ago, I don't think.

Took the risk the year before? He played football, and got paid handsomely for it. Over $12m, as I recall. If that's taking a risk, I dread to think what James Conner is doing now, playing all those games for $578,000.

Dez Bryant? Did he get injured in a game or something? Some articles speculated, ironically, that his holdout this off-season might have contributed to his injury. Speculation, either way. What we can say is that Bryant got his long-term deal, didn't hold out a year to do it, and frankly didn't live up to it. Which isn't to say he wasn't good, but he wasn't as good as the deal. Hence he got cut. And that's the problem with big money deals. As for injuries, you can get injured doing warm ups, or in your gym in Miami, or on your jet ski in Miami for that matter. Or at an LA Fitness basketball court in Pittsburgh.

Anyway, a shame it ended like this in one way, but actually I have to say I'm glad he didn't report today as opposed to show up. Steelers get $6m extra in cap space back, and that would not have been $6m well spent. $14.5m total. Steelers need that cap room. And Steelers fans now know it is over. It will make for an interesting football documentary some day, I am sure.

cos every player is about the money, in this situation it was clearly about more than that or it was of just signed the tag.



i would say not having a contract and not being able to seek one, is a prevention. hell having every possible step in your career locked up is kinda of one too. you have to play for free, then you have to play for the team that takes you and at a pretty much set fee and then even when that deal is over they can still control you.



twisting things to suit your narrative.



people post all sorts on Twitter, so him saying where he is going doesn't seem like a big deal.
the team did all they could do?
well thats clearly not true is it, other they would of offered a deal that would of been accepted.



and again with ignoring reality, Bell had already put himself in position as the no.1 player at his position and had played out his contract.
playing on a new 1 year deal in that situation is a risk. players with actually contracts held out this season but got there deals.
if you cant place a situation in context and see why thats a risk for him


indeed you can but on a football field its a bit more likely.
and you never had to give him a deal if you dont think he is worth it but the tag came and they expected him to cave to there terms or end up signing the tag and he stood strong.



the story is yet to be written for both him and the Steelers, maybe they both look right, maybe they both look wrong in 5 years time.
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  #332  
Old 14.11.2018, 12:35 AM
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cos every player is about the money, in this situation it was clearly about more than that or it was of just signed the tag.



i would say not having a contract and not being able to seek one, is a prevention. hell having every possible step in your career locked up is kinda of one too. you have to play for free, then you have to play for the team that takes you and at a pretty much set fee and then even when that deal is over they can still control you.



twisting things to suit your narrative.



people post all sorts on Twitter, so him saying where he is going doesn't seem like a big deal.
the team did all they could do?
well thats clearly not true is it, other they would of offered a deal that would of been accepted.



and again with ignoring reality, Bell had already put himself in position as the no.1 player at his position and had played out his contract.
playing on a new 1 year deal in that situation is a risk. players with actually contracts held out this season but got there deals.
if you cant place a situation in context and see why thats a risk for him


indeed you can but on a football field its a bit more likely.
and you never had to give him a deal if you dont think he is worth it but the tag came and they expected him to cave to there terms or end up signing the tag and he stood strong.



the story is yet to be written for both him and the Steelers, maybe they both look right, maybe they both look wrong in 5 years time.
It's about the money. Long-term money. The sticking point was years of guaranteed money.

Aditi Khinkabwala put something good on Twitter earlier, sent to her by an AFC front office executive this week. To paraphrase, first you pay the guy who throws the ball, then the guy who chases after the guy who throws the ball, then the guy who catches best the passes thrown, then the guy who best covers the best catcher of the ball, then the guy who blocks for the guy throwing. In other words, the running back doesn't come into it.

I don't know if that came from the Steelers front office, but given she's an AFC North reporter in the main there's a fair chance it at least came from the division. But I think that it reflects how the Steelers approach things. They were willing to pay him the tag price last year, and this year. They were willing to offer a good price on a longer-term arrangement. But they weren't willing to go beyond that, which is what Bell wanted. The Steelers were happy to pay the high price for this year and then reassess. Which is their right under the CBA and tag rules. Bell had other ideas. Which is his right if he foregoes salary.

The Steelers are one of only a few teams who is careful about throwing big money at players and especially guaranteed money. Green Bay is another one. I wouldn't want to change that to be more like the Dolphins or the Redskins, no way. Bell is better off at another team and I don't think the Steelers will look back. You talk about Bell being no1 in his position. Sure, but I don't think that was actually the issue. The issue was that he wanted to be paid like a no1 back AND a no2 receiver. As Bell's agent himself said in July "the Steelers wanted to pay the position, not the player" - meaning the Steelers offered money for a top end running back. But that wasn't enough for Bell. Maybe Gurley's deal this summer helps him leverage. But somewhere else.

Final point: I think a point not talked about that might hamper Bell's market value is his off-field behaviour. I'm not even talking about this. I'm talking about two bans for smoking weed. And that's a double whammy, because if you get caught with that on a big money contract, it voids your guarantees usually. Wasn't it Dwayne Bowe who basically lost millions for a spliff?

Last edited by European Bob; 14.11.2018 at 12:43 AM.
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  #333  
Old 14.11.2018, 12:56 AM
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It's about the money. Long-term money. The sticking point was years of guaranteed money.

Aditi Khinkabwala put something good on Twitter earlier, sent to her by an AFC front office executive this week. To paraphrase, first you pay the guy who throws the ball, then the guy who chases after the guy who throws the ball, then the guy who catches best the passes thrown, then the guy who best covers the best catcher of the ball, then the guy who blocks for the guy throwing. In other words, the running back doesn't come into it.

I don't know if that came from the Steelers front office, but given she's an AFC North reporter in the main there's a fair chance it at least came from the division. But I think that it reflects how the Steelers approach things. They were willing to pay him the tag price last year, and this year. They were willing to offer a good price on a longer-term arrangement. But they weren't willing to go beyond that, which is what Bell wanted. The Steelers were happy to pay the high price for this year and then reassess. Which is their right under the CBA and tag rules. Bell had other ideas. Which is his right if he foregoes salary.

The Steelers are one of only a few teams who is careful about throwing big money at players and especially guaranteed money. Green Bay is another one. I wouldn't want to change that to be more like the Dolphins or the Redskins, no way. Bell is better off at another team and I don't think the Steelers will look back. You talk about Bell being no1 in his position. Sure, but I don't think that was actually the issue. The issue was that he wanted to be paid like a no1 back AND a no2 receiver. As Bell's agent himself said in July "the Steelers wanted to pay the position, not the player" - meaning the Steelers offered money for a top end running back. But that wasn't enough for Bell. Maybe Gurley's deal this summer helps him leverage. But somewhere else.

Final point: I think a point not talked about that might hamper Bell's market value is his off-field behaviour. I'm not even talking about this. I'm talking about two bans for smoking weed. And that's a double whammy, because if you get caught with that on a big money contract, it voids your guarantees usually. Wasn't it Dwayne Bowe who basically lost millions for a spliff?

again i have no issue with the Steelers not wanting to pay, its just the use of the tags and then the talk about him.
if they value other positions more then thats where they need to spend the cap but people pay for quality.



on a side note given we are going on rumours, how about things he has said in the past like if i'm tagged again, then i might holdout or retire.



the thing is and even going by the rumours, the Steelers never offered him a deal as good as Gurleys.



ah yes bring some NFL BS into the proceedings too, we all know that rule is a joke. i think it would hurt him more if it was more recent.
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  #334  
Old 14.11.2018, 09:43 AM
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Wouldn’t surprise me if a RB who won’t have played a down in 20 months by the time the 2019 season starts, and who has injury and off-field issues in his past, doesn’t get the kind of offers he expects. Also, as much as he would obviously upgrade our Offense, I’d be a little wary of bringing someone like that into a traditionally volatile environment. Think we’re probably still favourites to sign him though...
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  #335  
Old 14.11.2018, 09:57 AM
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Wouldn’t surprise me if a RB who won’t have played a down in 20 months by the time the 2019 season starts, and who has injury and off-field issues in his past, doesn’t get the kind of offers he expects. Also, as much as he would obviously upgrade our Offense, I’d be a little wary of bringing someone like that into a traditionally volatile environment. Think we’re probably still favourites to sign him though...
Like the Jets; the Colts, Bills and Raiders have a ton of cap space next season. They could all do with help (i.e. a true #1 back). The Packers, and dare I say it the Ravens, might be interesting landing spots if he has to sign a 1-year deal. A 1-year deal would be a bit odd though considering his age and position, and the fact this entire storm kicked up because of the lack of a long term deal (that he liked).

I'd say the Colts are favourites. They don't appear to have any big contracts due for renewal next year. They have a young roster, on rookie contracts. Marlon Mack is the best RB they have. They have a young O line that has taken strides this year. If they aren't in the mix for Bell i'd be amazed.
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  #336  
Old 14.11.2018, 11:21 AM
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What a bummer for the Mexican fans. Especially that game as well. I haven't seen the pictures of the field but it sounds really bad. I'll bet that sets Mexico back a few years in terms of their continued hosting of IS games - it's not as if the stadium itself is really NFL level either.

I bet the NFL can't wait for Spurs' stadium to open. I like a grass field as much as anyone but this sounds dangerous and lets face it the Wembley surface has been far from ideal over the years. It's a big benefit of the Field Turf that Spurs' stadium will have. It's not like all US grass fields are perfect (Chicago in December anyone?) but international stadiums and their fields are obviously designed for other sports and used for other sports - completely normal. In particular, it seems soccer needs longer grass on the field than football does, so this affects the cleats worn and takes some getting used to for the players. Tottenham's combination of a soccer grass field for Spurs and US-style FieldTurf for the NFL is very smart indeed.
Spurs stadium looks amazing. Looking forward to seeing an NFL crowd in that huge kop! Should make for quite an atmosphere.
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  #337  
Old 14.11.2018, 12:19 PM
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So who is our money on anyway?

Jets?
Colts?
Raiders?
Eagles?
Patriots?!?
Ravens?!?!?
Jets - thats a fanbase at a very low ebb that a marquee signing would galvanise
Cant see Raiders giving Bell contract he wants given the fact they wouldn't pay Mack because of all the holes that Gruden believes he has to fill on that roster
Patriots are set with Michel & White/Burkhead barring further injury

I have very little opinion re Bell because it borers me to Deflate-gate levels, but no one will pay him anything close to the sum Bell believes he is worth.
Bell's a great back, but in a league with an ever increasing number of them Bell brings baggage that will lead to a lack of bidding war for his services
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  #338  
Old 14.11.2018, 03:09 PM
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again i have no issue with the Steelers not wanting to pay, its just the use of the tags and then the talk about him.
if they value other positions more then thats where they need to spend the cap but people pay for quality.



on a side note given we are going on rumours, how about things he has said in the past like if i'm tagged again, then i might holdout or retire.



the thing is and even going by the rumours, the Steelers never offered him a deal as good as Gurleys.



ah yes bring some NFL BS into the proceedings too, we all know that rule is a joke. i think it would hurt him more if it was more recent.
No, the Steelers didn’t offer him a deal as good as Gurley. But nor are they obliged to. Just because the Rams offer a certain amount of money to someone 2 and a half years younger it doesn’t oblige the Steelers to follow. The Rams have a cheap QB, we don’t. Cheap wide receivers, we don’t. And to be honest they just have more money. They are in LA with one of the richest owners. They are both good RBs but the comparisons end there.

On the drugs point, call it BS if you want but Bell has missed time in 2 of the last 3 seasons for this. This year he can’t be tested so who knows. How long is the next ban? 10 games or a season? I’m not sure but its a long one for a third offence. To think that doesn’t factor in to front office thoughts is naive.

He won’t retire. He wants more money!
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  #339  
Old 14.11.2018, 05:20 PM
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I bet the NFL can't wait for Spurs' stadium to open. I like a grass field as much as anyone but this sounds dangerous and lets face it the Wembley surface has been far from ideal over the years. It's a big benefit of the Field Turf that Spurs' stadium will have. It's not like all US grass fields are perfect (Chicago in December anyone?) but international stadiums and their fields are obviously designed for other sports and used for other sports - completely normal. In particular, it seems soccer needs longer grass on the field than football does, so this affects the cleats worn and takes some getting used to for the players. Tottenham's combination of a soccer grass field for Spurs and US-style FieldTurf for the NFL is very smart indeed.
Dont know the full reasons behind it but the 49ers field was dreadful on MNF.
Regarding grass length, soccer pitches (especially in the PL) are very short. Having been up close to Bournemouths a year ago, which is a recent Desso weave/grass composition, the grass its self cant be much more than 4-6mm. I dont know how long grass is on a football field, but i wouldnt say it was shorter.
I will be interested to see how Spurs' new grass pitch holds up, with it being in 3 pieces. I know theyve trialed it all at the training ground to ensure the joins arent problematic but previous iterations of "joined" grass havent been great (Millennium stadium first few years).
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  #340  
Old 14.11.2018, 05:36 PM
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No, the Steelers didn’t offer him a deal as good as Gurley. But nor are they obliged to. Just because the Rams offer a certain amount of money to someone 2 and a half years younger it doesn’t oblige the Steelers to follow. The Rams have a cheap QB, we don’t. Cheap wide receivers, we don’t. And to be honest they just have more money. They are in LA with one of the richest owners. They are both good RBs but the comparisons end there.

On the drugs point, call it BS if you want but Bell has missed time in 2 of the last 3 seasons for this. This year he can’t be tested so who knows. How long is the next ban? 10 games or a season? I’m not sure but its a long one for a third offence. To think that doesn’t factor in to front office thoughts is naive.

He won’t retire. He wants more money!

again i agree they didnt have to give him a contract but they decided to tag him, if they didnt tag him and didnt want to pay him i would of been fine with that.



lots of things factor in.



hopefully he doesnt retire but you keep missing the point and focusing on the dollars and when he wanted to feel valued and the Steelers didnt show that.
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