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  #261  
Old 17.10.2017, 08:50 AM
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I found the atmosphere in the US pretty boring.

And that was watching a overtime win by the Jets against the Pats. I went to see Washington Cowboys and ending up just drinking and eating on the concourse.

The game is what it is. I don't think you can dress it up much to make out a single game is an amazing spectacle of drama because it isn't.

With the home internationals I think it is clear people aren't clambering for tickets as they once were.

This weekends game tickets are going for 30 quid and under on resale sites. So if you think about the fact the resale site will take a portion of that from the seller, they're flogging them for peanuts.

I am going to Rams/Cards but I've got to say I am not particularly excited. I'd rather watch redzone & not get back home 1-2am.

Last edited by RockyBalboa; 17.10.2017 at 08:54 AM.
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  #262  
Old 17.10.2017, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RockyBalboa View Post
I found the atmosphere in the US pretty boring.

And that was watching a overtime win by the Jets against the Pats. I went to see Washington Cowboys and ending up just drinking and eating on the concourse.

The game is what it is. I don't think you can dress it up much to make out a single game is an amazing spectacle of drama because it isn't.

With the home internationals I think it is clear people aren't clambering for tickets as they once were.

This weekends game tickets are going for 30 quid and under on resale sites. So if you think about the fact the resale site will take a portion of that from the seller, they're flogging them for peanuts.

I am going to Rams/Cards but I've got to say I am not particularly excited. I'd rather watch redzone & not get back home 1-2am.
Out of interest, what was it that made you go to the concourse? Anything particular about the US experience that would not have made you go to the concourse at Wembley? Maybe you'd feel different watching the Eagles rather than 2 divisional rivals?

Redzone is part of the problem I think. I quite like watching the end of the 1pm eastern games on Redzone on a Sunday once our game is gone, but it's killing the game really - people's attention spans are getting shorter and shorter, everyone wants drama all the time. And you don't get that with a real game. You get ebb and flow, a story developing. Redzone reduces the game to endless touchdowns, interceptions and kickoff returns.
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  #263  
Old 18.10.2017, 02:37 AM
MCM Titan MCM Titan is offline
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Originally Posted by Spenspuma View Post
You've answered the REAL reason why it won't happen....rather than it being a 'silly' idea....its only a bad idea because the pig headedness of a number of NFL teams who refuse to come to London.
Yeah, how selfish of some teams to put their existing fan bases first when it comes to seeing them play their biggest games, eh?

I think you forget that in some cases such games are rare treats for the home fans of those teams. For example, the New England Patriots would host the Green Bay Packers once every eight years, and it will be the same for every AFC vs NFC matchup.

Given that rarity, would you really expect the Patriots to say to their loyal fans, some of whom will have been season ticket holders for generations, that they won't get to see Tom Brady vs Aaron Rodgers because some of the fans in London aren't happy about with what they've already got?

Be serious. I think you forget what a unique privilege we have in being able to see any meaningful regular season games in London let alone four of them each year. There are plenty of states in the US where they would kill to be able to go to a live game in their back yard!

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Originally Posted by Spenspuma View Post
For the International Series to continue in the UK and it to be a success and worthwhile, the NFL needs to better the matchups being sent over. It's not just me who has commented on the quality of the teams(in general) that are being sent to us.
At the conclusion of this year 24 of the 32 NFL teams will have played in London, including the Patriots (twice), Giants (twice) and the Cowboys, plus plenty of other popular teams who were pretty good when they visited London.

Are you suggesting that 75% of the league is ****? Can you play better than those guys?

Besides, just because teams look great on paper when the games are first announce that doesn't guarantee that they'll still look great on the field when the games are actually played.

For example, suppose this weekend's game at Twickenham was the Packers vs the Giants. With the Giants missing three of their WRs including Odell Beckham, Jr and the Packers missing Aaron Rodgers (which took them down from 2nd to 16 in one power ranking I saw yesterday) do you think it's still as great a game?

You don't need two Super Bowl contenders to get a great game. In the last few years some of my favourite games in London have been the Lions vs the Falcons, the Bills vs the Jaguars, and Washington vs the Bengals, not because any of those teams were the best of the best but because those were great contests, with plenty of big plays, unpredictability, and the game going right down to the wire each time.


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Originally Posted by Spenspuma View Post
As I've said before....if the Premier league played 3 games a year in New York and we sent over Brighton Vs Huddesfield and West Brom Vs Crystal Palace and Swansea Vs Bournemouth....id fully expect the American soccer fans to start questioning why the PL is sending over such dross and would fully expect the interest in future games to wane unless that was addressed.
The last three Liverpool vs Manchester United games have been 0-0, 1-1, 0-0.

Imagine you were a New Yorker who didn't know much about football and you were told that you were going to get to see England's two biggest and most successful teams go head-to-head in the Premier League's biggest fixture.

You'd probably be salivating at the prospect, expecting to see lots of action. Imagine how turned off about football you'd be if you saw one of those Jose Mourinho how-to-park-the-bus specials.

Now imagine how excited you would be after the game if you actually saw a competitive game between two less successful teams instead. Just look at last three contests of the three matchups you listed in comparison:

The last three Brighton vs Huddersfield games have been 2-1, 1-0 and 1-3.

The last three West Brom vs Crystal Palace games have been 3-2, 1-0 and 0-2.

The last three Swansea City vs Bournemouth games have been 2-3, 0-3 and 0-2.

Which do you think was more entertaining: one of those 0-0 Liverpool vs United draws or one of those 3-2 contests?

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Originally Posted by Spenspuma View Post
It really is about time we saw a premium game.
We're seeing four premium games a year. If you opened your eyes wider then you'd appreciate that fact a bit more.

Last edited by MCM Titan; 18.10.2017 at 02:43 AM.
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  #264  
Old 18.10.2017, 06:26 AM
Spenspuma Spenspuma is offline
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Hi Titan...and thanks for taking the time to reply.

Yes of course you can't predict what will be a good matchup and you can't predict what will be a good close high scoring game. But the tickets are sold in advance, so the interest is decided before a ball has even been kicked....so for the majority, the matchup will be important.

I keep saying it but if we sent over Hudderfield vs Brighton then the Americans would of course get a bit miffed that they aren't seeing any of the top teams. That's not to say a top team match up is going to be a better game...but they are excited to see the stars of the game they've seen on tv....and there ain't many stars at Huddersfield and Brighton...lol

But yes...we the fans are probably starting to get a bit more picky, especially now the novelty factor of seeing regular season games in the UK is wearing thin. Maybe we expect too much...and maybe European Bob is correct in saying that unless we get a Franchise over here the interest will continue to for off.

Who knows...but I do think next year and 2019 is pivotal to the future success of these games. If we don't have a couple of so called big teams coming over, I think interest is going to cool considerably.
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  #265  
Old 18.10.2017, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by European Bob View Post
Out of interest, what was it that made you go to the concourse? Anything particular about the US experience that would not have made you go to the concourse at Wembley? Maybe you'd feel different watching the Eagles rather than 2 divisional rivals?

Redzone is part of the problem I think. I quite like watching the end of the 1pm eastern games on Redzone on a Sunday once our game is gone, but it's killing the game really - people's attention spans are getting shorter and shorter, everyone wants drama all the time. And you don't get that with a real game. You get ebb and flow, a story developing. Redzone reduces the game to endless touchdowns, interceptions and kickoff returns.
Definitely.

And we were on holiday, already in high spirits from a few drinks on the way to the game. The atmosphere inside really wasn't special. Sad really...watching two division rivals play it out in the capital and we'd rather sit at the bar like drunkards!. If I went back now I think I'd appreciate more.

I'm surprised they allow redzone. I know I would be far more tempted to get gamepass if there was no redzone.

Last edited by RockyBalboa; 18.10.2017 at 08:06 AM.
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  #266  
Old 18.10.2017, 09:55 AM
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I think you forget that in some cases such games are rare treats for the home fans of those teams. For example, the New England Patriots would host the Green Bay Packers once every eight years, and it will be the same for every AFC vs NFC matchup.

Given that rarity, would you really expect the Patriots to say to their loyal fans, some of whom will have been season ticket holders for generations, that they won't get to see Tom Brady vs Aaron Rodgers because some of the fans in London aren't happy about with what they've already got?
A good illustration of this was the stat that Bill Belichick had before TNF a few weeks ago never won in Tampa, the only NFL city he had never won in. But then you only play NFC teams every 4 years (except the Super Bowl), and you only play away to NFC teams every 8 years. And 8 years ago Patriots at Bucs was in London! And actually 16 years ago we weren't yet in the modern day scheduling format as that only came in with the Texans' addition to make it a 32-team league in 2002. New England's last game in Tampa was at Houlihan's stadium in November 1997 - pre-Belichick, pre-Brady!

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At the conclusion of this year 24 of the 32 NFL teams will have played in London, including the Patriots (twice), Giants (twice) and the Cowboys, plus plenty of other popular teams who were pretty good when they visited London.
I think it's 26 actually. I only count the Eagles, Packers, Panthers, Seahawks, Texans and Titans who will not have been.

Packers and Seahawks are 2 good ones. But the rest? Titans, Texans... these teams have very few UK fans and for a large part of the last 10 years have been no great shakes, even when the Texans were winning their division. I'm not sure that's what Spensuma wanted. Panthers - a couple of good seasons but for the most part patchy. They also went from average to Super Bowl appearance to average in the space of 3 years so whichever way you look at it you are getting something different to what you may have initially thought when the announcement is made a year earlier.

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The last three Liverpool vs Manchester United games have been 0-0, 1-1, 0-0.

Imagine you were a New Yorker who didn't know much about football and you were told that you were going to get to see England's two biggest and most successful teams go head-to-head in the Premier League's biggest fixture.

You'd probably be salivating at the prospect, expecting to see lots of action. Imagine how turned off about football you'd be if you saw one of those Jose Mourinho how-to-park-the-bus specials.
It's so hard to compare to soccer though. There is a pretty clear pecking order in soccer about who the best teams are and who has the best players. In the NFL most teams have one or two star players whereas in the Premier League they are concentrated in a few clubs. Say the Texans come next year... not the best team but you might get to see Watt and Clowney - two of the best at what they do. Or this year with the Cards and Larry Fitzgerald. Huddersfield are just inferior to City or Chelsea at every position, and if one player is an exception he'll be sold to one of the bigger clubs. There are a few NFL teams who are consistently good and consistently bad but the vast majority at in the middle. Nobody thought the Falcons would make the Super Bowl last year. In the Premier League you mostly know what's going to happen. That's why Leicester's title win was such a big deal - they overcame huge handicaps to win.

If you want to watch just a good game and aren't so worried about quality, there is MLS. But most fans in the US will want to watch big name players. Which means the top teams.

Also, NFL fans here don't mirror soccer fans there. We aren't quite split evenly 32 ways but there are fans of all teams here and those with big fanbases aren't necessarily the good teams. 49ers, Bears, Redskins, Dolphins spring to mind. Raiders too despite a dreadful decade before last year. So actually this year we got a big name team at Wembley in Miami - 2nd most popular in the UK. But with soccer most foreign fans support United, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool, with City and Spurs probably next up. About as close to parity as you will get is the fact that United's fanbase (no1 overseas) no longer quite mirrors its performances given they have not won the league for a few years. But they're not exactly mid-table or below. So it's hard to compare.
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  #267  
Old 18.10.2017, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by RockyBalboa View Post
Definitely.

And we were on holiday, already in high spirits from a few drinks on the way to the game. The atmosphere inside really wasn't special. Sad really...watching two division rivals play it out in the capital and we'd rather sit at the bar like drunkards!. If I went back now I think I'd appreciate more.

I'm surprised they allow redzone. I know I would be far more tempted to get gamepass if there was no redzone.
Maybe that just says more about you than the game/atmosphere though. But regardless it's better seeing your team. I enjoyed the Steelers games I went to in the US much more than the 2 neutral ones I went to. I liked them but it's not the same. And one (Jets-Patriots) both sets of fans were being jerks the whole game.

Redzone doesn't really live up to watching your own team though. Especially 6pm games you don't really see the game properly.
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  #268  
Old 18.10.2017, 10:40 AM
MCM Titan MCM Titan is offline
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It's so hard to compare to soccer though. There is a pretty clear pecking order in soccer about who the best teams are and who has the best players. In the NFL most teams have one or two star players whereas in the Premier League they are concentrated in a few clubs. Say the Texans come next year... not the best team but you might get to see Watt and Clowney - two of the best at what they do. Or this year with the Cards and Larry Fitzgerald. Huddersfield are just inferior to City or Chelsea at every position, and if one player is an exception he'll be sold to one of the bigger clubs. There are a few NFL teams who are consistently good and consistently bad but the vast majority at in the middle. Nobody thought the Falcons would make the Super Bowl last year. In the Premier League you mostly know what's going to happen. That's why Leicester's title win was such a big deal - they overcame huge handicaps to win.

If you want to watch just a good game and aren't so worried about quality, there is MLS. But most fans in the US will want to watch big name players. Which means the top teams.
But we have seen plenty of star players in London. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger Tony Romo, Andrew Luck, Odell Beckham, etc. And every year we get to see more of those guys. On Sunday you'll be able to add Larry Fitzgerald to the list.

Seriously, we have it so good in so many ways that I find this quality debate to be an almost silly distraction.

To use a food analogy, it's like we were starving but one day a neighbour came over and gave us some super noodles, then next day a pizza, then the next day a roast dinner, etc, but then after a fortnight we turned around and complained "Hey, this stuff is so-so. When are you bring me some filet mignon and champagne?"

Again, there are fans in many US cities who'd kill to be in our position:

Number of regular NFL games played in London: 21.

Number of regular NFL games played in San Antonio, Texas, a city that has a metro area of 2.4 million and that has actively tried to get an NFL team: 0.
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  #269  
Old 18.10.2017, 01:14 PM
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If 60-70000 people can put good money down to see Cleveland It would suggest its not waning.(there aren't 60000 Viking fans)They seem just as poor this season as last.I for one can't do it unless I come across a bargain in the secondry market.
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  #270  
Old 18.10.2017, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MCM Titan View Post
But we have seen plenty of star players in London. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger Tony Romo, Andrew Luck, Odell Beckham, etc. And every year we get to see more of those guys. On Sunday you'll be able to add Larry Fitzgerald to the list.

Seriously, we have it so good in so many ways that I find this quality debate to be an almost silly distraction.

To use a food analogy, it's like we were starving but one day a neighbour came over and gave us some super noodles, then next day a pizza, then the next day a roast dinner, etc, but then after a fortnight we turned around and complained "Hey, this stuff is so-so. When are you bring me some filet mignon and champagne?"

Again, there are fans in many US cities who'd kill to be in our position:

Number of regular NFL games played in London: 21.

Number of regular NFL games played in San Antonio, Texas, a city that has a metro area of 2.4 million and that has actively tried to get an NFL team: 0.
Factually incorrect on San Antonio. They had 3 New Orleans Saints home games in the 2005 season. You had your pick of cities there and you've fumbled the ball... just don't pick Milwaukee next. They also get the Alamo Bowl in San Antonio, which usually has decent though not the absolute best college football teams.

In any event, I'm just saying don't compare football with soccer - it doesn't work. I'm not saying we haven't had good players here: we have. Well we've had all bar 6 teams here so of course we have. But analogies with soccer don't work. Take two middle of the road NFL teams in a given year and you'll have more star players on the field than two middle of the road soccer teams, that's my point. Because talent is spread around. I'm not complaining about quality of teams in London games at all. We get what we get. But I'm also tired of neutral games so while we get what we get and that's fine, don't expect me to show up and eat whatever you care to serve up. It's not like a meal because I won't die if I don't watch any game live at the stadium. Nor will watching a better meal on TV give you any sustenance!
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