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  #361  
Old 20.07.2017, 04:32 AM
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One of the most difficult things to predict looking at the imminent future is how many members of the Steelers D from the 2004 to 2011 era will get in. The numbers that D did coupled with 3 Super Bowl runs (2 wins) is remarkable.

Yet, outside Polamalu, not one is even in our list. Certainly James Harrison is likely to make the conversation as is Casey Hampton despite his lack of name recognition to some. However are there names missing or simply being overlooked in favour of bigger reputations?

It will be the similar projecting 10 years into the future with how many of the Seahawks D will make it.

As a unit, their numbers over an extended stretch of time are also undeniable. They have been a top 5 total D every year since 2012. Top overall two years in a row. Lowest average points 4 years straight. They have 2, arguably 3 players, who are already in the discussion (Thomas, Sherman with Chancellor on the outside looking in) but will that be their quota?

This also goes back to the Steelers as the Seahawks already more players in the discussion (2) than the Steelers (1) despite the Pittsburgh D being at the top for a longer period and getting to more Super Bowls.
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  #362  
Old 20.07.2017, 07:06 AM
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Perhaps both the Steelers and Seahawks have/had alot of HoVG players coupled with 1 or 2 HoF guys. The Steelers front 7's was stacked with HoVG imo. Smith, Hampton, Keisel, Farrior, Foote, Porter.

James Harrison might be in with the best shot. He was a late bloomer, only becoming a starter aged 29, but he had a 4 or 5 year spell of elite play from 2007 - 2010/11. That window included his 2nd and 3rd trips to the SB, and his 2nd SB ring. The thing that might tip the balance and eventually get him in though is his 2008 DPOTY.

I think Thomas and Sherman look to be on the right track, Bobby Wagner too.
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  #363  
Old 20.07.2017, 07:06 AM
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I've added James Harrison, Steve Atwater and Darren Woodson to the updated list.
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  #364  
Old 20.07.2017, 07:09 AM
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Bobby Wagner and Cameron Wake to be added as well.
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  #365  
Old 20.07.2017, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenFlyer View Post
One of the most difficult things to predict looking at the imminent future is how many members of the Steelers D from the 2004 to 2011 era will get in. The numbers that D did coupled with 3 Super Bowl runs (2 wins) is remarkable.

Yet, outside Polamalu, not one is even in our list. Certainly James Harrison is likely to make the conversation as is Casey Hampton despite his lack of name recognition to some. However are there names missing or simply being overlooked in favour of bigger reputations?

It will be the similar projecting 10 years into the future with how many of the Seahawks D will make it.

As a unit, their numbers over an extended stretch of time are also undeniable. They have been a top 5 total D every year since 2012. Top overall two years in a row. Lowest average points 4 years straight. They have 2, arguably 3 players, who are already in the discussion (Thomas, Sherman with Chancellor on the outside looking in) but will that be their quota?

This also goes back to the Steelers as the Seahawks already more players in the discussion (2) than the Steelers (1) despite the Pittsburgh D being at the top for a longer period and getting to more Super Bowls.
You can be a great team in the era with a lot of very good but not great players. And I think both the Seahawks and Steelers have plenty of the "very good".

For me, neither Casey Hampton nor James Harrison belong in the HoF. Hampton did not impact the game enough and was a two down player. No matter how goo at that role he was. And Harrison is a tricky one. I love him as a player, but he's never really been among the best in the NFL.

For the Seahawks, I don't think they've been as dominant for as long as we expected. Sherman is nowhere near the HoF and seems to have peaked. Chancellor isn't close. He's was amazing last year, but has had lots of rough patches. Wagner is a very good LB, but not close. Mike Bennett is outstanding, but the numbers and profile aren't really there.

The will be one. Earl Thomas. He'll go in. No doubt. I think he's been a bit over-rated at times. But they ask him to do an awful lot. He needs a few more good seasons, if he can be a 5 time first-team All Pro (so one more) and with another rig, he'd be a lock.
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  #366  
Old 20.07.2017, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olig23 View Post
You can be a great team in the era with a lot of very good but not great players. And I think both the Seahawks and Steelers have plenty of the "very good".

For me, neither Casey Hampton nor James Harrison belong in the HoF. Hampton did not impact the game enough and was a two down player. No matter how goo at that role he was. And Harrison is a tricky one. I love him as a player, but he's never really been among the best in the NFL.

For the Seahawks, I don't think they've been as dominant for as long as we expected. Sherman is nowhere near the HoF and seems to have peaked. Chancellor isn't close. He's was amazing last year, but has had lots of rough patches. Wagner is a very good LB, but not close. Mike Bennett is outstanding, but the numbers and profile aren't really there.

The will be one. Earl Thomas. He'll go in. No doubt. I think he's been a bit over-rated at times. But they ask him to do an awful lot. He needs a few more good seasons, if he can be a 5 time first-team All Pro (so one more) and with another rig, he'd be a lock.
I can't help but wonder that if either team had a little less talent then we might be higher on certain individuals.

What got me thinking about this is comparing the late 2000s Ravens with the late 2000s Steelers. The Ravens core of Ngata, Suggs, Lewis and Reed are all heavily admired and will all be HOF candidates (with easier and harder paths into it). However there roster around them is relatively shallow of HOVG compared to the Steelers.

Perhaps if there were less HOVG players around, those who could excel would have had more chance and our perspectives would be different.
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  #367  
Old 20.07.2017, 07:57 PM
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I'll give the Offense minus O line a go!

QB:
Peyton Manning - 2021 - LOCK
Tom Brady - LOCK
Drew Brees - LOCK
Aaron Rodgers - LOCK
Big Ben - YES
Eli Manning - YES (But only because of the 2 rings, don't believe he should be a 1st ballot/Still bitter about SB 42 and 46!)
Philip Rivers - OTRT
Matt Ryan - OTRT
Donovan McNabb* - HOVG

RB:
Adrian Peterson - YES (Although do wonder if recent misdemeanours will count against him being a 1st ballot that he would have been previously)
Marshawn Lynch - YES
Frank Gore - MAYBE
Edgerrin James* - MAYBE
Steven Jackson - 2021 - HOVG
Eddie George* - HOVG
Corey Dillon* - HOVG
Fred Taylor* - MAYBE
Shaun Alexander* - MAYBE
Priest Holmes* - MAYBE

WR:
Randy Moss - 2018 - LOCK
Terrell Owens* - YES
Isaac Bruce* - MAYBE
Torry Holt* - MAYBE
Steve Smith - 2022 - YES
Calvin Johnson - 2021 - YES
Reggie Wayne - 2020 - HOVG
Andre Johnson - 2022 - MAYBE
Wes Welker - 2021 - HOVG
Hines Ward* - YES
Larry Fitzgerald - LOCK
Julio Jones - YES/OTRT
Antonio Brown - YES/OTRT
Brandon Marshall - MAYBE/HOVG
AJ Green. - OTRT

TE:
Tony Gonzalez - 2019 - LOCK
Jason Witten - YES
Antonio Gates - LOCK
Rob Gronkowski - YES/OTRT (Based on current performance, but if injury limits career there may be some debate)
Greg Olsen - MAYBE


The RB/WR log jam makes it incredibly hard to predict who will make it and who slides into the HOVG!
Right let's give the rest a go minus O line, as my knowledge of the OL group is shocking!


DL:
Julius Peppers - YES
Terrell Suggs - MAYBE
Dwight Freeney - MAYBE
JJ Watt - LOCK
Ndamukong Suh - MAYBE
Haloti Ngata - HOVG
Vince Wilfork - HOVG (I'd love him to get in but can't see it, rings may be the only way he gets in over others, but highly unlikely)
Cameron Wake - MAYBE
Jared Allen - 2021 - YES
Kevin Williams - 2021 - HOVG
Richard Seymour - 2018 - YES
John Abraham - 2020 - HOVG
Robert Mathis - 2022 - MAYBE
Simeon Rice* - HOVG
Bryant Young* - HOVG

LB:
Ray Lewis - 2018 - LOCK
DeMarcus Ware - 2022 - LOCK
Brian Urlacher - 2018 - YES
Patrick Willis - 2020 - YES
Zach Thomas* - MAYBE
Luke Kuechly - OTRT
Von Miller - OTRT
Justin Houston - OTRT
James Harrison - HOVG
Bobby Wagner - MAYBE

DB:
Ed Reed - 2019 - LOCK
Champ Bailey - 2019 - YES
Ronde Barber - 2018 -YES
Charles Woodson - 2021 - YES
Troy Polamalu - 2020 - LOCK
Brian Dawkins* - YES
John Lynch* - MAYBE
Ty Law* - MAYBE
Rodney Harrison* - MAYBE
Steve Atwater* - MAYBE
Darren Woodson* - YES
Darrelle Revis - MAYBE
Richard Sherman - MAYBE
Earl Thomas - LOCK
Patrick Peterson - MAYBE
Eric Berry - YES/OTRT

K/P/KR:
Adam Vinatieri - LOCK
Shane Lechler - MAYBE
Devin Hester - LOCK
Jason Hanson - 2018 - HOVG
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  #368  
Old 20.07.2017, 08:17 PM
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I'd say Revis should be a strong yes, perhaps even a lock, while Hester is a Maybe. Charles Woodson is also a lock. He's going in first ballot with Peyton in 2021.
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  #369  
Old 20.07.2017, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boknows34 View Post
I'd say Revis should be a strong yes, perhaps even a lock, while Hester is a Maybe. Charles Woodson is also a lock. He's going in first ballot with Peyton in 2021.
Hester with all the records makes him a lock for me. Not sure why I put a "maybe" next to Revis as you're quite right he will end up there, not a first ballot in my opinion but will certainly get there.
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  #370  
Old 21.07.2017, 07:48 AM
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Gronk is already a Hall of Fame lock imo - even if he retired today. He has the stats (ie. he already has the most double digit TD seasons in TE history, and more double digit TD seasons than all the TEs in the HoF combined at the moment - will change when Tony G goes in). He's also got the rings now, the big game moments in SB49, one of the most underrated all time great performances in that AFC Title game at Denver - those two 4th down conversion catches he made are still two of the best I've seen in the clutch - and he's been the best at his position for a good half decade now.
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