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  #16401  
Old 30.05.2019, 07:27 PM
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lee harris 10 lee harris 10 is offline
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Originally Posted by goodkarma84 View Post
nothing on Mueller

i believe its £248m that we send to them and then we get money back in terms of investment and money to farmers and such, which makes it £136m.
no collusion no obstruction,nothing new.....

also hope they do subpoena him as he cannot just be allowed to smear Trump by saying we couldn't prove he didn't commit a crime when surely the US justice system is about proving someone's guilt and if you cant do that then he is innocent.
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  #16402  
Old 30.05.2019, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
no collusion no obstruction,nothing new.....

also hope they do subpoena him as he cannot just be allowed to smear Trump by saying we couldn't prove he didn't commit a crime when surely the US justice system is about proving someone's guilt and if you cant do that then he is innocent.

keep telling yourself that


the obstruction is pretty clear at this point, i dont want him impeached for various reasons but Congress cant ignore this information.


collusion might of happened but seems hard to prove, given people seem to be ignoring him doing it on film, which is just dumb.



and thats why they hold trials/hearings.



i also hope they subpoena him but it wont mean much these days as people just seem to ignore them and/or give half arsed answers.
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  #16403  
Old 30.05.2019, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by goodkarma84 View Post
keep telling yourself that


the obstruction is pretty clear at this point, i dont want him impeached for various reasons but Congress cant ignore this information.


collusion might of happened but seems hard to prove, given people seem to be ignoring him doing it on film, which is just dumb.



and thats why they hold trials/hearings.



i also hope they subpoena him but it wont mean much these days as people just seem to ignore them and/or give half arsed answers.
the special council works for the DOJ and the AG and his inner circle have seen the full report and there are no charges pending against anyone named in it for any collusion with Russia and the 10 possible episodes of obstruction he highlighted when looked at non would have led to charges(just like Comey laying out things Hillary did then said that no one would prosecute) due to lack of evidence/intent.

the Dems in the house can play the impeachment game if they like but with the Republicans majority in the Senate and the need to get 67 out of 100 votes its just all a waste of time just like the Clinton impeachment when Ken Starr actually got Bill lying.

Mueller has said if he is called to testify he wont really say anything new and wont add anything that's not in his report so guess Muellertime has passed with just the nothingburger we started from.

now its Barr/Horowitz/Huber/Durham time as we find out if anyone crossed the line while pushing the Fake Trump/Russia narrative in 2016.
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  #16404  
Old 30.05.2019, 10:54 PM
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the special council works for the DOJ and the AG and his inner circle have seen the full report and there are no charges pending against anyone named in it for any collusion with Russia and the 10 possible episodes of obstruction he highlighted when looked at non would have led to charges(just like Comey laying out things Hillary did then said that no one would prosecute) due to lack of evidence/intent.

the Dems in the house can play the impeachment game if they like but with the Republicans majority in the Senate and the need to get 67 out of 100 votes its just all a waste of time just like the Clinton impeachment when Ken Starr actually got Bill lying.

Mueller has said if he is called to testify he wont really say anything new and wont add anything that's not in his report so guess Muellertime has passed with just the nothingburger we started from.

now its Barr/Horowitz/Huber/Durham time as we find out if anyone crossed the line while pushing the Fake Trump/Russia narrative in 2016.

and Trump controls those jokers.



the Hiliary emails things was always nothing and a bit of a joke and people in this current WH have done the same thing.



well as i say we have it on video, Trump asking for Russian help and he got it. its not nothing, its just so blatant people are overlooking it, i feel like we are stuck in a farce, people running around looking for evidence and he is giving it away on camera.



i guess time will tell if the proof is there on obstruction, he seemed to do plenty of it, not sure how you can claim its nothing.



also the Muller report was done with some basic respect, the Starr report was a awful.

Clinton was bad, he did some positive things in office and some bad things but as a person he was a nightmare.

as i have said before, while you treat it as a team sport i do not. all pointing out Clinton does is show silly people like Graham look on a more serious issue in terms of the office of President and democracy.



i have no idea why you back Trump or believe him to be some angel, the man has a ton of flaws and is dodgy as hell.
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  #16405  
Old 31.05.2019, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
and wasn't Boris quoting the ONS and there 2016 "gross" figure about how much we paid to the EU before any money comes back??
Rather tellingly Lee you have provided no source for your number so let me help you:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/gross...get/2016-05-25

As you can see the ONS number of 9.9 billion is 190 million per week. Not 350 million. I also don't remember seeing "we send the EU 350 million a week but that's the gross amount (even though it isn't) and we do get quite a lot of that back anyway not to mention all the benefits that money buys us but if we have actually got any money left from that rather spurious and inflated number once we've left, lets fund the NHS instead maybe" on the side of any red buses?

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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
also on George how do we best describe all the prediction his treasury made about a leave vote,any you can mention that where correct?
Erm. I can do it again if you like but just go back to my earlier post and, you know, actually read the article from the Harvard Business Review. Or just Google it, there's loads available. Here's one:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...s-later-brexit

Lee, I find myself in the same position as a few months ago. There is just no point trying to have an adult conversation with someone whose grasp of facts is so casually held. You go on believing what you want to mate. You're wrong but then I guess there is some comfort in delusion.

Last edited by LesterHayes; 31.05.2019 at 09:57 AM.
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  #16406  
Old 31.05.2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterHayes View Post
Rather tellingly Lee you have provided no source for your number so let me help you:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/gross...get/2016-05-25

As you can see the ONS number of 9.9 billion is 190 million per week. Not 350 million. I also don't remember seeing "we send the EU 350 million a week but that's the gross amount (even though it isn't) and we do get quite a lot of that back anyway not to mention all the benefits that money buys us but if we have actually got any money left from that rather spurious and inflated number once we've left, lets fund the NHS instead maybe" on the side of any red buses?



Erm. I can do it again if you like but just go back to my earlier post and, you know, actually read the article from the Harvard Business Review. Or just Google it, there's loads available. Here's one:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...s-later-brexit

Lee, I find myself in the same position as a few months ago. There is just no point trying to have an adult conversation with someone whose grasp of facts is so casually held. You go on believing what you want to mate. You're wrong but then I guess there is some comfort in delusion.

the thing is we get a rebate from the amount due (and we can veto it being removed) and we never send over that money over, so it would be a totally false statement to claim we do.
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  #16407  
Old 01.06.2019, 04:52 PM
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lee harris 10 lee harris 10 is offline
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Originally Posted by LesterHayes View Post
Rather tellingly Lee you have provided no source for your number so let me help you:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/gross...get/2016-05-25

As you can see the ONS number of 9.9 billion is 190 million per week. Not 350 million. I also don't remember seeing "we send the EU 350 million a week but that's the gross amount (even though it isn't) and we do get quite a lot of that back anyway not to mention all the benefits that money buys us but if we have actually got any money left from that rather spurious and inflated number once we've left, lets fund the NHS instead maybe" on the side of any red buses?



Erm. I can do it again if you like but just go back to my earlier post and, you know, actually read the article from the Harvard Business Review. Or just Google it, there's loads available. Here's one:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...s-later-brexit

Lee, I find myself in the same position as a few months ago. There is just no point trying to have an adult conversation with someone whose grasp of facts is so casually held. You go on believing what you want to mate. You're wrong but then I guess there is some comfort in delusion.
yeah thanks for the link to the 2014 spending which has nothing to do with the 2016 treasury "estimate" our gross contribution that was where the rough near £19bn payment to the EU,if you divide that by 52 weeks what you get.........

but of course after what the treasury pushed out as part of there project fear no wonder there estimated numbers don't always add up.
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  #16408  
Old 01.06.2019, 06:39 PM
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so Mueller found been biased again.

yesterday as part of the on-going Mike Flynn case(he still hasn't be sentenced) Judge Sullivan wanted the DOJ to hand over the transcripts of the intercepted calls that got him into trouble but they didn't even though some parts where leaked to the media.

the Judge also wanted the un-redacted copy of the parts of the Mueller report that involves Flynn but yet again that was with held

but a voice mail message between John Dowd who at the time was representing Trump and Flynns lawyer that was used by the SCO as 1 of the example's of Trumps obstruction of justice was asked for by the judge and a transcript was handed over and it shows Mueller and his team edited out parts of the conversation to make it look a lot more "damaging" to Trump and changed to context of certain comments.

wonder why in a 400 page report Muellers team needed to edit out a few sentences worth of words from a short statement rather than just leave it intact.oh wait.......
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  #16409  
Old 01.06.2019, 08:46 PM
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And Donald makes a big fuss about claims of Russian interference in US elections, but thinks nothing of sticking his oar in endorsing Boris. No double standards there.
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  #16410  
Old 03.06.2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
yeah thanks for the link to the 2014 spending which has nothing to do with the 2016 treasury "estimate" our gross contribution that was where the rough near £19bn payment to the EU,if you divide that by 52 weeks what you get.........

but of course after what the treasury pushed out as part of there project fear no wonder there estimated numbers don't always add up.
Here you go then mate:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/gover...get/2017-10-31

So that's between 150 and 180 million, a long way short of the 350 claimed.

Here's another one:

https://fullfact.org/europe/350-mill...hority-misuse/

or:

https://fullfact.org/europe/foreign-...ion-explained/

Last one:

https://www.statisticsauthority.gov....-MP-210416.pdf

Better?

Its a strange one really. The biggest number that all these reports can come up with amounts to about 267 million a week. Why wasn't that considered a big enough number? The lowest is 156 million, an enormous amount of money too?

My theory is that the Vote Leave people wanted to steer clear of anything that could be considered verifiable facts. Go with 267 million and all the talk would be about the money we get back and that could have led to all sorts of discussions about the fantastic concessions we've managed to ring out of the EU over the years. Go with 156 million and you've got the same problem. Go with the gross amount and you put Remain on the back foot (as happened) trying to justify our contributions. A mendacious lie that 350 million number definitely was but you've got to hand it to those people. No honor but they won. I just don't know how they justify it to themselves.

Last edited by LesterHayes; 03.06.2019 at 03:27 PM.
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