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  #16611  
Old 08.07.2019, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterHayes View Post
Lee, "there would have been no complaint" was the whole quote not there was "no complaint". That is very different.

Justice whatshername is saying that had Johnson used a figure of 350 gross or 250 nett "there would have been no complaint". He didn't use either qualification though did he ergo there should have been cause for complaint because the figure of 350 million is not what we give the EU as the ONS and countless other people have said. Unfortunately the law does not allow prosecution when the actual numbers are in the public domain. Which they were. Just no one actually read them.

The judge also concluded it had not been demonstrated that Mr Johnson made the comments "as he discharged the duties of (his) office".

Really? Did he resign his position during the referendum? Did I miss something?

Also, although Parliament had passed legislation to make it a criminal offence for anyone to make false statements about a candidate during a campaign for the purposes of stopping them being elected the judges concluded that it also had "deliberately excluded" legislating to include false factual statements about statistics within the auspices of the criminal law.

"Parliament twice made a choice not to do precisely that which the interested party now seeks to achieve" they ruled.

If that isn't a legal technicality, I don't know what is? There is no way anyone could read this as an exoneration of Boris. Well, no one except you that is.

Regarding your other comments, personally I don't really care about the judge that passed the case up the ladder. Maybe she was politically motivated too? Maybe she just thought better safe than sorry? Who knows, Case dismissed anyway but I did say I'd withhold judgement until the reasoning was published and the reasoning for dismissing the claim is ultimately on a technical point of law and the presumption the general public actually have minds of their own. Depressingly an awful lot of people (most of them not judges) don't.

As to the guy that brought the case; what did he have to gain apart from notoriety? I can't see a money making scheme behind it unless he was hoping that Boris would buy him off or something? He should have known better; Johnson is more likely to have paid to have him beaten up. In your post you suggest he "was a total chancer who lied about almost everything"?

Example?
ok in 2016 he launches his #Brexit justice add sets up a crowd fund hoping to raise £100k to in his words
prosecute vote leave
fund legal challenge to Brexit

he then burns through all the original donations on lawyers and other expenses but by 2018 he deletes all his Brexit stuff rebrands his campaign as been all about mis-conduct in public office and he needs another more donations claiming his lawyers say they now have "a very strong case" but also since he in dedicating so much time(even though he aint a lawyer) to the legal fight he starts asking for nearly £25k a year in a salary and by all accounts has a nice flat in canary wharf which the donations are paying for.

when this went to the district court he lied about this been political motivated even though it started out as all been about Brexit and even the high court judge said even without this case never having been prosecuted before even though he claimed to all his supporters they had a strong case the judge said it was legally un-sound she would have kicked the case over his history which is listed in the full rulings and she described the whole case as vexatiuos.

Marcus J Ball might have to get a real job now.

i
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  #16612  
Old 09.07.2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
ok in 2016 he launches his #Brexit justice add sets up a crowd fund hoping to raise £100k to in his words
prosecute vote leave
fund legal challenge to Brexit

he then burns through all the original donations on lawyers and other expenses but by 2018 he deletes all his Brexit stuff rebrands his campaign as been all about mis-conduct in public office and he needs another more donations claiming his lawyers say they now have "a very strong case" but also since he in dedicating so much time(even though he aint a lawyer) to the legal fight he starts asking for nearly £25k a year in a salary and by all accounts has a nice flat in canary wharf which the donations are paying for.

when this went to the district court he lied about this been political motivated even though it started out as all been about Brexit and even the high court judge said even without this case never having been prosecuted before even though he claimed to all his supporters they had a strong case the judge said it was legally un-sound she would have kicked the case over his history which is listed in the full rulings and she described the whole case as vexatiuos.

Marcus J Ball might have to get a real job now.

i
Personally I've no problem with Mr Ball drawing a small salary from the crowdfunding revenue in order to prosecute his case. I imagine it probably was a full time job. It would have cost considerably more to employ a solicitor. To be fair to him, go look at the crowdfunding page where he is pretty transparent about where the money is going. Brexitjustice.com also has a breakdown of spending published as a PDF for anyone to download? I've just done it.

As for his motivation, weren't the Nuremberg Trials politically motivated? So what? I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me that the merits of the case are what counts, not why it was before the court in the first place or who brought it to be honest? This case was dismissed primarily because it was decided that Boris was acting as Boris the individual and not Boris the MP. A quote from lawgazette.co.uk:

"It finds that District Judge Margot Coleman erred in finding that Johnson was a public office holder 'acting as such' when he made claims about the UK's contribution to the EU budget during the Brexit campaign. Case law demonstrated that to be guilty of misconduct 'the individual must be acting as, not simply whilst, a public official', the judgment states."

I wonder how many people listening and voting off the back of Boris's comments about how much money the NHS was going to get made this distinction?

So, yes Mr Ball was judged "vexatious". Vexatious litigation is legal action which is brought solely to harass or subdue an adversary. So? Did Boris lie or not?

When all is said and done we're getting away from the point somewhat. It's been proven that the original claim, that the NHS would get 350 million pounds a week in funding when we left the EU, was utter poppycock. No one now expects that funding on the NHS will change one bit. It that respect the statement was untrue. We never had 350 million spare in the first place, the ONS have confirmed that so that was also untrue. Worse though is that no one is now talking about any Brexit Dividend at all. For anything. Now the talk is of crashing out with No Deal, of waving good bye to car manufacturing, of setting money aside to bail our farmers and the fishing industry, of a short term financial and operational meltdown followed by 30 to 50 years of pain. And that's from the flipping people advocating it!?!?

But, somehow and for some reason, it'll be worth it.

For me though, the strangest thing about the whole episode is how Boris, an Eton and Oxford educated, Bullingdon Club pig shagger and self confessed Toff is somehow juxtaposed as the champion of the common man? If it was anyone else in the dock, getting off on a legal technicality, and a slightly spurious one at that, wouldn't we be shouting privileged elite at him? I imagine the press would be full of allegations of how, once again, the guy with all the connections walks free? How and why is Mr Ball painted as the Baddie here?

Last edited by LesterHayes; 09.07.2019 at 11:35 AM.
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  #16613  
Old 09.07.2019, 01:14 PM
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need corbyn in.

and a livewire anti-war movement.
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  #16614  
Old 09.07.2019, 01:22 PM
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Well that's Labour's position on Brexit cleared up...not. How can you say that you will campaign for Remain in a second referendum but refuse to say what you will do if you win a general election?
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  #16615  
Old 09.07.2019, 03:09 PM
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jeffrey epstein.

clintons.

laura silsby.

trump.

connect the dots.

and still venezuela and iran and cuba are the bad guys ffs.
neo-capitalist NWO distraction.

Last edited by Two-minute drill; 09.07.2019 at 03:11 PM.
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  #16616  
Old 09.07.2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by iffies View Post
Well that's Labour's position on Brexit cleared up...not. How can you say that you will campaign for Remain in a second referendum but refuse to say what you will do if you win a general election?

tbf it does seem to be a clean position even if its not an appealing one.



he is anti EU and its not a secret but his position is wanting his brexit not a Tory one (not that i think either of them would be any good) as he feels it would be more damaging.



at least the position now seems to be based in reality, wanting a second vote and backing remain, in the face of no deal or a Tory deal.



i find it hard to believe the new leader (despite the problems) will call a GE before brexit is decided (which is the right way around as long as there is a second vote) as it would be too risky, hell they might just play out the whole term.
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  #16617  
Old 09.07.2019, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two-minute drill View Post
jeffrey epstein.

clintons.

laura silsby.

trump.

connect the dots.

and still venezuela and iran and cuba are the bad guys ffs.
neo-capitalist NWO distraction.
by all accounts in the original investigation Epstein passed on some big names as part of his plea agreement to the FBI headed at the time by Mueller but they never did anything with them so wonder if we get some light on who in DC at the FBI/DOJ helped cover up there crimes.

interesting trying to see why or when the SDNY opened this case with the miami herald and Mike Cernovich all spending the last few years suing to get the original trial documents released or was there another catalyst.

watching CNN today they seem to love reading out the quote from Trump in 2002 about praising Epstein well before all this broke but never report how after that he then "banned" Epstein from Mar-a-Lago over an incident with a friends young daughter.
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  #16618  
Old 09.07.2019, 06:46 PM
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lee harris 10 lee harris 10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Two-minute drill View Post
need corbyn in.

and a livewire anti-war movement.
to be fair PM May hasnt started or directly supported any conflicts during her time unless i am forgetting something.
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  #16619  
Old 09.07.2019, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by goodkarma84 View Post
tbf it does seem to be a clean position even if its not an appealing one.



he is anti EU and its not a secret but his position is wanting his brexit not a Tory one (not that i think either of them would be any good) as he feels it would be more damaging.



at least the position now seems to be based in reality, wanting a second vote and backing remain, in the face of no deal or a Tory deal.



i find it hard to believe the new leader (despite the problems) will call a GE before brexit is decided (which is the right way around as long as there is a second vote) as it would be too risky, hell they might just play out the whole term.
yeah labours position is we are a party for Remain in opposition but if we somehow won a snap GE we would have campaigned on going back to the EU for talk about getting our Leave deal so would then be back in favour of full filling the out come of the 2016 referendum.

with Labour now going Remain it might actually help push PM Boris into thinking about a snap election as labour/lib dems/greens would all now be fighting over the same votes and the people who want to still Leave would fall into the conservatives hands as they would hoover up some of the Brexit party support on the promise of gotten out or getting out depending on the timing.
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  #16620  
Old 15.07.2019, 12:49 AM
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Trump still the racist and the total moron we all know him to be, saying and doing the awful things we expect from someone with his lack of well basically everything.
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