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  #11611  
Old 08.10.2016, 04:17 PM
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With Labour unelectable with clunker Corbyn in charge, Tony B. Liar is on the verge of saving the nation by launching his own political party. The high priest of spin, lies and self-enrichment is worried by the prospect of Britain becoming a one-party state, which is not being run for the benefit of the rich and sleazy.
If he did, would the majority of the PLP leave labour for it?
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  #11612  
Old 08.10.2016, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
Can the americans just cancel there election.Trump who is now been "hit" by a decade old video of him speaking lewedly about a woman or Hilary who has somemore lraked e-mails coming out but has also Bill by her side who has not just said but done a lot worse.The next debate on sunday is going to kill SNF in the ratings again.
Trump boasts of sexually assaulting women. What did Bill Clinton say and/or do that is worse than that?

It's not that it is old exactly that is the issue. It's that it accurately reflects what a lot of people have been saying about him. Namely that he is rude and aggressive to women. That he is a crude misogynist. Until now the Trump team have been able to deny the worst of it. Not so easy now.

His former wife made a legal deposition that he raped her. The basis of their divorce was his "cruel and inhuman treatment" of her.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...-a6836151.html

Trump is apparently violent and unpleasant and he wields his wealth and influence to get away with it. You wouldn't want to leave your wife alone with this man, let alone your daughter. He doesn't even conceal it.

Some people don't hide their defects. They find a way to bring them into the open where somehow they are less visible. If they aren't ashamed of their conduct, it is less easy to pin them down over it.

The British people may have turned a blind eye to Jimmy Saville but my goodness at least we didn't make him Prime Minister! If you are in any doubt about how unpleasant and damaging a Trump Presidency could be, imagine what might have happened if we had.
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  #11613  
Old 08.10.2016, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by davidjones178@hotmail.co.uk View Post
Trump boasts of sexually assaulting women. What did Bill Clinton say and/or do that is worse than that?

It's not that it is old exactly that is the issue. It's that it accurately reflects what a lot of people have been saying about him. Namely that he is rude and aggressive to women. That he is a crude misogynist. Until now the Trump team have been able to deny the worst of it. Not so easy now.
Trump is probably a rather rich person who does either look down on a lot of people or just assumes that his wealth allows him to act and say things that are far from what you would expect of a person who wants to run for office but the Clintons have as much baggage as Trump and Bills behavior towards women and how Hillary has treated these women also shows a lack of compassion.

Bill was accused by Paula Jones of sexual harrasment and exposing himself Kathleen Willey said Bill groped her and Juanita Broaddick said Bill Raped her also Bill has admitted 2 affairs out of the 3 women who have come forward with stories.

think at this point the Vice presidents candidates seem to be more electable but Donald and Hilary are on the ballott and 1 of them will become leader of the free world on November 8th.

Last edited by lee harris 10; 08.10.2016 at 08:00 PM.
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  #11614  
Old 08.10.2016, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dartmoor Falcon View Post
If he did, would the majority of the PLP leave labour for it?
I don't think so. British politics is really tribal, and Labour politics in particular. It would be extremely hard to get the votes to shift with you when so many vote Labour pretty much automatically. I saw a poll a few weeks ago asking people on both the left and centre of the labour spectrum whether in the event of a split (either one of the left elements or one of the centrist elements) would they be more likely to vote for the new party or vote for Labour. In all cases people said stay with Labour. The SDP also struggled last time and ended up merging with the Liberals in the end too. In the end the lesson there was if you were a centrist in the Labour party in times where the party was not, it was ultimately better to tough it out - the reward came in the Blair era - than to move to the SDP/Lib Dems.
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  #11615  
Old 09.10.2016, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
Trump is probably a rather rich person who does either look down on a lot of people or just assumes that his wealth allows him to act and say things that are far from what you would expect of a person who wants to run for office but the Clintons have as much baggage as Trump and Bills behavior towards women and how Hillary has treated these women also shows a lack of compassion.

Bill was accused by Paula Jones of sexual harrasment and exposing himself Kathleen Willey said Bill groped her and Juanita Broaddick said Bill Raped her also Bill has admitted 2 affairs out of the 3 women who have come forward with stories.

think at this point the Vice presidents candidates seem to be more electable but Donald and Hilary are on the ballott and 1 of them will become leader of the free world on November 8th.
Bill Clinton has his own problems with women, it is true. Although there seems to me to be some difference between denying offences and not being convicted of them and (in Trumps case) openly boasting about them and admitting them, and openly abusing women like Megyn Kelly.

The chief difference however is that the allegations against Bill Clinton emerged toward the end of his Presidency. By then it was too late not to elect him! So, yes, maybe Bill Clinton was an unsuitable choice for exactly the same reasons. With Trump, it is perfectly clear what he is like in advance. So there is no excuse.

It's not clear to me how or why this reflects badly on Hillary. Her misdemeanours seem very mild in comparison. The chief item of baggage she has is her husband. But he is not on the ticket and you have to think that the women in the White House know what he is like now. Dirty old Bill.

There is something about these immensely rich, privileged men. They can have pretty much anything they want I guess, and when a woman they like trots along they naturally assume she is included.
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  #11616  
Old 09.10.2016, 10:43 AM
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I don't think so. British politics is really tribal, and Labour politics in particular. It would be extremely hard to get the votes to shift with you when so many vote Labour pretty much automatically. I saw a poll a few weeks ago asking people on both the left and centre of the labour spectrum whether in the event of a split (either one of the left elements or one of the centrist elements) would they be more likely to vote for the new party or vote for Labour. In all cases people said stay with Labour. The SDP also struggled last time and ended up merging with the Liberals in the end too. In the end the lesson there was if you were a centrist in the Labour party in times where the party was not, it was ultimately better to tough it out - the reward came in the Blair era - than to move to the SDP/Lib Dems.
In general I agree, but tribalism comes in different forms and they may conflict. People, even tribal people, then have a choice to make. Labour lost 40 of it's 41 Scottish MPs in 2015. It was annihilated. This suggests that an awful lot of people who for a long time had voted for Labour automatically suddenly changed their minds. So it can happen and it can happen suddenly.

It can also happen slowly. In 1997 Labour received 13,518,167 votes. In 2015 Labour received 9,347,304 votes. The Tory numbers are 9,600,943 (1997) and 11,334,576 (2015). So not only do Labour voters stop voting for Labour, but some of them go on to vote Tory. Both parties have a hard core, which as the Scottish experience suggests is not actually as hard core as they believe, and then there are less committed voters all the way out to the people who decide on the day.

If there was an election tomorrow, on the basis of current polling, Labour would lose 34 seats to the Tories. Tory MPs would outnumber Labour MPs by almost 2:1.

http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

How Labour responds to it's next general election result may indicate it's future. If Labour gets drubbed and Corbyn still won't go, that could open the door for an alternative. Seeing an Islington marxist (and his former lover Shadow Home Secretary) drag their party to continued destruction could convince regional supporters to learn lessons from the SNP and try something a little more local.
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  #11617  
Old 10.10.2016, 09:28 PM
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Shami Chakrabarti is the latest chip off the old leftist block to rail against grammar schools in favour of comprehensive education... when it comes to your kids. But when it comes to her kids, it'll be an £18,000 per year private education, thank you very much. She doesn't want to get into discussing it particularly, because there is a child's best interests in the middle of this. As though that were not the case for any other child's schooling.

If it weren't for the fact they nearly all seem to be like this you would say the hypocrisy is stunning. How on earth am I meant to take what they are advocating seriously when it clearly is not good enough for them and their families? My MP is the same, David Lammy. Tottenham born and bred, is his mantra. He owns a house in the street next to mine - in the Tottenham constituency (just) but a somewhat better part and not actually in Tottenham. However, schools around here are not great, and especially secondary schools. Cue MP and his family moving a few miles away to a leafier part of town with much better schools.

Last edited by European Bob; 10.10.2016 at 09:34 PM.
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  #11618  
Old 12.10.2016, 10:29 AM
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Theresa May strolled on stage at the Tory conference to Start Me Up by the Rolling Stones and that's supposed to have made her seem hep and with it.
Has everyone forgotten that MicroSoft used the same tune to launch Windows 95 with its "revolutionary" and earth-shattering Start button? Which makes Mrs. May look rather dated and recycled.
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  #11619  
Old 12.10.2016, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by JensonF View Post
Theresa May strolled on stage at the Tory conference to Start Me Up by the Rolling Stones and that's supposed to have made her seem hep and with it.
Has everyone forgotten that MicroSoft used the same tune to launch Windows 95 with its "revolutionary" and earth-shattering Start button? Which makes Mrs. May look rather dated and recycled.
Ha!!

I remember Labour stealing or should we say it wasn't used for commerical purposes so they got away with it, the Farms 'all together'.

Imagine 'New Labour' using your song and then they did what they did.....
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  #11620  
Old 12.10.2016, 11:43 AM
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With the trump video I think there is a difference between actions and words. Did he really mean that he was going to sexually assault someone on camera? I don't think so. David@hotmail.co.uk claims above he has a history of it. But my issue isn't with that video.

Some men have the gall to claim they have never heard talk like it with a straight face. Get real, maybe some women will fall for your game but we all know you are lying.

The morning team on 5 Live (who have gone to the dogs) asked a friend of trump: "if you were with him and he said those things would you laugh, not care, or reply critically." What does it matter?.

Private conversations are effectively private thoughts. Who is affected by them?. Does a bear poo in the woods?. Shall we begin thought policing?

Women and men say some terribly judgemental things, in private and in public. Where is the outcry?. Since when did humans think themselves to be such upstanding individuals?.

He obviously should be criticised for it attempting to be president. Out of everyone in America someone that uses locker room banter at the age of 60 could be avoided. A wider criticism of private conversations is not needed.

Remind me when human beings had some guideline for what is and isn't allowed to be said privately, or thought. It is ridiculous.

We all makes ourselves out to be perfect in the social arena. Why are people amazed that some are different in private. As I said, actions and words. We know when it is important to split them.

Last edited by RockyBalboa; 12.10.2016 at 11:52 AM.
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