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  #3171  
Old 26.10.2009, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Listair08 View Post
Bears fans appear to be unwilling to levy the blame on Mr Cutler.. curious.
Is it curious? Cutler's not the problem, that's why hardly anyone is blaming him.

Our OL is horrific, our most experienced receiver is a converted CB, our defense is missing two of its best players - no-one can blame Cutler for any of that.

When the Bears traded for Cutler it was to shore up the QB position for the next ten years, hopefully. But it's a team sport - the guy needs help to consistently produce at the level he did in Denver.

Also, the main reason the Broncos lost games last year was their 28th ranked defense, not Cutler. Just as the main reason they're winning games this year is their 2nd ranked defense.
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  #3172  
Old 26.10.2009, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlieBear View Post
Is it curious? Cutler's not the problem, that's why hardly anyone is blaming him.

Our OL is horrific, our most experienced receiver is a converted CB, our defense is missing two of its best players - no-one can blame Cutler for any of that.

When the Bears traded for Cutler it was to shore up the QB position for the next ten years, hopefully. But it's a team sport - the guy needs help to consistently produce at the level he did in Denver.

Also, the main reason the Broncos lost games last year was their 28th ranked defense, not Cutler. Just as the main reason they're winning games this year is their 2nd ranked defense.
CharlieBear makes very good points here...

The question remains was the trade worth it... the hardest bit given the problems in the lines and at receiver is the loss of the 2 first round picks... come draft time next year we still have your pick (although we traded away our own). Addresssing these areas will be harder due to the loss of your first round pick.
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  #3173  
Old 27.10.2009, 11:17 AM
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Wink not Cutlering it...

Cutler's not the problem..............

Also, the main reason the Broncos lost games last year was their 28th ranked defense, not Cutler. Just as the main reason they're winning games this year is their 2nd ranked defense.[/QUOTE]

I will grant you that the QB is not the be-all and end-all of the teams performance. But can you seriously not look at Cutler as the main reason.. take the Bengals game. Cutler threw 3 times as many Interceptions as TDs..versus a generally average QB in Palmer who threw 5 TD and no Interceptions. This is typical Cutler. When we won last year, we won big. But half the time Cutler got into his Interception zone and we lost it when we otherwise would have won.. we'd have made the playoffs easily otherwise.

On a side note, our(Broncos) performance this year cannot be placed entirely on the D's shoulders although they are the main reason. Orton has been very reliable, essentially no interceptions(except one hail mary for fun at the end of a half). Our receivers Marshall, Royal are some of the best in the league.. and our RBs Buckhalter and Moreno are really stepping up their game.

If I were a Bears fan I would be spitting flames over the trade this offseason..

I think everyone agrees the Broncos made out like Bandits..

That being said if Cutler can finally show some maturity on and off the feild (he'll step up to the ranks of Brady and Manning...which I confess Orton never will)... and if you get Urlacher back the Bears will be a force to be reckoned with next year...NEXT year..
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  #3174  
Old 27.10.2009, 11:40 AM
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I only have one thing to say about the Bears performance on Sunday.

Ouch.

Now, onto other things I'd like to stand up and give a LOT of credit to Cedric Benson. From being a complete waste of space the guy has turned his life around and is on track to leading his new team to a play off berth, I'm pleased for him and I only wish him well.


WTB: 1 new offensive line and a defence that can play at pace.

Cincy worked out how to play us after last week's show against Atlanta. We need to adapt now or the season is over.
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  #3175  
Old 27.10.2009, 04:43 PM
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listair how do you work out that Palmer is an average QB, average Qb's in the league are like Chad Pennington, Kerry Collins.

Palmer has done just as much probally more then Cutler has ever done in this league
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  #3176  
Old 27.10.2009, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 118 M Man #9 View Post
listair how do you work out that Palmer is an average QB, average Qb's in the league are like Chad Pennington, Kerry Collins.

Palmer has done just as much probally more then Cutler has ever done in this league
You can't really compare two QBs at such different points in their career on those terms. What is Palmer a couple times pro-bowler, about 30 years old, how many superbowls or even playoffs. Cutler (who I am no great fan of and would chose Palmer over any day!) is just out of his rookie years and has shown poise and an arm to potentially raise him to the level of Peyton Manning, Marino etc.. Palmer is decent but has already shown he isnt destined for greatness. Maybe Cutler wont be either. Who knows.

Anyway there will only be 1 Elway!
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  #3177  
Old 27.10.2009, 05:08 PM
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Well...

I'll take Palmer first. Carson is anything but average, in fact he is probably the only player in he NFL who has the skills to rival Brady and Manning (yes that includes Drew Brees) but he has not been healthy for a while and has not really been back to his best. If he was 100% I'd take him over 99% of QBs in the league. His performance at the weekend was impressive and while he was ceratinly helped by our troubled secondary he is a very good QB. Looking at the Bengals though they have a very good offence. Benson is running very well but most of all their o-line is very good. Bobbie Williams has been consistently among the best guards in the league over the last three seasons and Whitworth is doing an excellent job at OT - it's a good offence.

On Cutler: Well to be honest the reason nobody is blaming Cutler is that our woes are not his fault. I infer from comments made earlier that some guys didn't watch the game or see the relationship between picks and score. We were being spanked and Cutler had no choice but to throw - the Bengals were prepared for passes given their lead it's going to lead to picks if you are playing catch-up all day.

I've said it time and time again that it is fine to say a QB is bad if he is being put in a position to make a game of it by the D and ideally having a running game would be good but we have regressed on the o-line and been horrible at times in pass pro. It's not Cutler's fault.

We need to improve the o-line in the summer and get a proper #2 to split time with Forte. The secondary is poor but we knew that coming into the season. Ron Turner is not helping himself either I know they are keeping it simple for Knox and Bennett but they only run about 4 different routes each depending on the coverage and having watched the games back a few times this year I think I could jump some of the routes.... it's way to soft and simple imo which allows guys to keep one eye in the backfield and slows our rushing offence. I also think that is why we seem to be seeing a lot of corner blitzes this season.

Last edited by olig23; 27.10.2009 at 05:11 PM.
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  #3178  
Old 27.10.2009, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listair08 View Post
Cutler's not the problem..............

But can you seriously not look at Cutler as the main reason.. .
When Cutler starts blowing his coverage, calling Cover 2 D's without adequate players to implement it, letting running backs run straight through our D Line, and not creating any holes to run through, I'll start blaming him for our current problems.

Until then, take your blinkers off. As has been said, its easy to look at the stats (INT's) and blame him, but considering everything that is going on around him, his stats aren't that bad.
Without him, there's no way we'd be 3-3.
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  #3179  
Old 29.10.2009, 09:33 AM
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Anyone that says Palmer is average, is grossly misinformed.

If he played for a classy organization, and didn't have the injury problems. No doubt in my mind he'd be potentially a Top 5 QB.

Hell so far he looks like the only USC QB that wasn't a product of his environment ie; The all American offensive line, the stellar defenses, and the playmakers at WR and RB.

Sanchez looks like an average starting QB at best. I don't see anything special in him at all. Hasn't even played in weather under 55 degrees F or 12 Celsius for you folks across the pond. Doesn't bode well for him if he doesn't get his act together and get used to playing in a cold weather city like New York.

Leinart couldn't beat out Kurt Warner.

Matt Cassel, looks to be better than those 2, but still is only an average starter.

Last edited by Biolink; 29.10.2009 at 09:36 AM.
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  #3180  
Old 29.10.2009, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
I will grant you that the QB is not the be-all and end-all of the teams performance. But can you seriously not look at Cutler as the main reason.. take the Bengals game. Cutler threw 3 times as many Interceptions as TDs..versus a generally average QB in Palmer who threw 5 TD and no Interceptions. This is typical Cutler. When we won last year, we won big.

That being said if Cutler can finally show some maturity on and off the feild (he'll step up to the ranks of Brady and Manning...which I confess Orton never will)... and if you get Urlacher back the Bears will be a force to be reckoned with next year...NEXT year..
Que?

Cuter's 1st INT was when we were down 28 points IIRC(Might have been 35, not sure).

If a team KNOWS you are throwing because you are down 35 points, you have no other choice, but to press the issue. Since you have no other choice, but to press the issue because you are down 35 points, a team can sit back and watch. Especially when the Bengals were generating pressure with their front 4. If you generate pressure with your front 4, you don't have to blitz or load the line up. If you don't have to blitz, or load the line up, you have the freedom of dropping players back in coverage. Since Cutler is being pressure by the front 4, since there are more players back in coverage, and since Cutler and every person watching and in the stadium knows that the Bears will be throwing the ball you WILL have interceptions.

Honestly he had 1 bad INT. The other 2 he was trying to make plays, but this joke of an offensive line can't give him any time.

Goes without saying that the Bears offensive line is a joke(There might be 2 starter quality players, in Garza and Williams. Kreutz is about below average, and the whole left side sucks.). On top of that the coaching is atrocious. I dream that by only getting Urlacher back the Bears will be a good team. He's better than what we have now, but even he isn't exactly the force he was in the NFL anymore(Though he's highly respected).

Be prepared for a small rebuilding phase for 2-3 years after we miss the playoffs this season...

Last edited by Biolink; 29.10.2009 at 09:52 AM.
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