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  #4211  
Old 30.09.2015, 10:22 AM
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Our Special Teams have never been the same since Lovie Smith left, was Bobby April the ST Coach then?

I immediately thought of Denver as the possible place for Forte to go to.
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  #4212  
Old 30.09.2015, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olig23 View Post
This should not go un-noticed.

One of the areas I am most angry about is our kick coverage unit. In Week 1 I felt like Ty Montgomery was potentially going to break a huge one, and then both Arizona and Seattle do it the next two weeks.

Losing Dave Toub was one of those massively under-rated blows. He's the best ST coach in the NFL (along with Bobby April) and losing him you can really see the impact.
Yeah the Lockett one for the Seahawks really knocked the wind out of our second half before it got going. Not saying we were ever going to win that game, but I think Wilson and the offense relaxed a bit after that, to their advantage.
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  #4213  
Old 30.09.2015, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Kennyb3 View Post
Wasn't directed at you per se. Bears fans tend to always want things patched up and to win now. We are not a patient bunch. It's time things were done right - that we start accumulating draft picks rather than trading them away, that we stop signing over the hill vets (some to big contracts) to patch things up when all it does is help us win meaningless games bceause we've slightly more talent than the other medicore teams meaning we miss out on players like Aaron donald or Leonard Williams, for example, by a spot or two cause we won that 4-11 game to move to 5-11. This rebuild has been coming for years due to poor drafting and an ageing roster. At least it's been accepted now by the current GM.



How do you figure that? Do you think Pace just took the first offer going or what do you mean? What would you base the value of an over the hill and terrible DE on? I just can't see who or what you are marking it against?

All picks have 'real world value' you just have to pick the right players. They are also useful for packaging for trade ups.

I'm genuinely surprised anyone gave us anything for him.

Looking at it the opposite way if I was a Panthers fan i'd be pissed - signing 34yo DE's and giving up a pick isn't how to build a roster for long term success.
Allen has already been paid, we lose a positive locker room influence to get a sixth rounder, how many worth
While players come out of the sixth, it's like first dibs at the best undrafted. Unless younger lbs are getting some game time in his place, we gain little.

I do however applaud the staff for prepping for the offseason as we all know this fall has really been enevitable for many years of terrible drafts.

Yes our SP is huge liability.
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  #4214  
Old 30.09.2015, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by payton3434 View Post
Allen has already been paid, we lose a positive locker room influence to get a sixth rounder, how many worth
While players come out of the sixth, it's like first dibs at the best undrafted. Unless younger lbs are getting some game time in his place, we gain little.
A positive locker room influence? That hardly means much. We've strong, experienced coaches & other vets. Allen didn't magically develop David Bass when he was there or any other player for that matter. We didn't have a locker room problem before he came and we won't have one after.

We get to look at Acho and whether he should be re-signed or not. We get a better look at houston and whether he is up to it or needs to be cut. We can put Wille Young in the shop window via a few situational pass rush sacks.

Yes the 6th round is a hit and miss effort but you are being flippant. Teams that draft well get success with 6th rounders - be it on special teams or in back up roles. Overtime they can develop into starters. You only have to look at the way the seahawks & NE accumulate picks in these rounds and throw darts at the board.

Also you can use these as a package to move up in round 3/4 and get a guy you really like.

You'd honestly rather see Allen play all year, taking reps from other players and having one less draft pick at the end of it.

Can you please explain exactly what that would achieve for the organisation?
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  #4215  
Old 30.09.2015, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennyb3 View Post
A positive locker room influence? That hardly means much. We've strong, experienced coaches & other vets. Allen didn't magically develop David Bass when he was there or any other player for that matter. We didn't have a locker room problem before he came and we won't have one after.

We get to look at Acho and whether he should be re-signed or not. We get a better look at houston and whether he is up to it or needs to be cut. We can put Wille Young in the shop window via a few situational pass rush sacks.

Yes the 6th round is a hit and miss effort but you are being flippant. Teams that draft well get success with 6th rounders - be it on special teams or in back up roles. Overtime they can develop into starters. You only have to look at the way the seahawks & NE accumulate picks in these rounds and throw darts at the board.

Also you can use these as a package to move up in round 3/4 and get a guy you really like.

You'd honestly rather see Allen play all year, taking reps from other players and having one less draft pick at the end of it.

Can you please explain exactly what that would achieve for the organisation?
I totally agree. This move made sense.

Acho was going to start ahead of him anyway.

The Bears must figure out if Houston/Young can play there situationally at the very least. They have money invested in Houston too so lets see what he has?

Sixth Rounders do not become star players but they are the building blocks of good teams. Things like our incompetence on special Teams mentioned earlier, can be alleviated here. Or you can find good depth talent, or developmental interior o-line guys - any picks are better than giving guys aways for 0 after the season.
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  #4216  
Old 30.09.2015, 02:36 PM
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Also, for what it's worth here are some 6th Round guys taken from 2013-2010. I start in 2013 because 2/3 years is a fair amount of time to really see what you have.

2013:
C - Eric Kush
WR - Corey Fuller
RB - Latavius Murray
RB - Andre Ellington
TE - Mychel Rivera
RB - Theo Riddick

2012:
CB - Jeremy Lane
RB - Alfred Morris
S - Justin Bethal
LB - Danny Travathan
QB - Ryan Lindley
T - Tom Compton

2011:
G- Brandon Fusco
CB - Byron Maxwell
C - Jason Kelce
TE/FB - Charles Clay
QB - Tyrod Taylor

2010:
RB - Anthony Dixon
DE - Greg Hardy
DE - Arthur Moats
RB - Jonathan Dwyer
WR -Antonio Brown
RB - James Starks
WR/KR - Trindon Holliday
C - Ted Larsen

That's a bunch of guys who are all contributors to a team having success. Few stars (I bolded the elite talents) but many guys who are either good specialists or just good players. Obviously, there are many busts. But that's just life in the draft. You have to try to draft well. If we do, those three picks in Round 6 could prove very useful down the road.
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  #4217  
Old 30.09.2015, 03:11 PM
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Had a quick check, but Johnny Knox who was good for us was in Round 5, I think Dent was too. - EDIT Dent was an 8th rounder.

Hilgenberg was undrafted and could make the Hall of Fame.

Last edited by ADBEARSFAN; 30.09.2015 at 03:39 PM.
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  #4218  
Old 30.09.2015, 03:30 PM
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Olig23, I'd add Nate palmer to your 2013 list - he's looking good this year and did in 2013. You could add a couple of kickers in 2012 too if you wanted.

It's obviously a bonus to get a key starter out of the 6th round but it's what the good draft teams do. not every year but if you can do it 1/3 years it helps. The Packers have arguably drafted better in later rounds than they have in earlier ones. Just look at

- Corey Linsey (161)
- Bakhtiari (109)
- josh Sitton (135)
- Nate Palmer (193)
- Sam Barrington (232)
- Micah Hyde (159)
- mike Daniels (132)

You gotta have the ammo to fire at it too. not every player works out no matter how much of a cert they are.

The Bears have had 37 picks since and including the 2010 draft, the packers have had 53 picks (43% more).

And we wonder why we've no depth?

You got to draft your back up and potential to start down the road guards, DT's, RB's & special teamers in these later rounds.

Last edited by Kennyb3; 30.09.2015 at 03:33 PM.
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  #4219  
Old 01.10.2015, 10:09 AM
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Not seen it mentioned anywhere, but Brock Vereen has now been cut too.
Frustrating when we traded but to get the guy! But it seems that if your not one of 'their guys' you've got no chance of staying on our roster with the new regime.

They've replaced him with an 8th year guy cut by the Jags, so getting younger can't be the excuse on this one!!
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  #4220  
Old 01.10.2015, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by britbear View Post
Not seen it mentioned anywhere, but Brock Vereen has now been cut too.
Frustrating when we traded but to get the guy! But it seems that if your not one of 'their guys' you've got no chance of staying on our roster with the new regime.

They've replaced him with an 8th year guy cut by the Jags, so getting younger can't be the excuse on this one!!
They like Amos. That's the logic there I think. I don't know if it's a question of "whose guy" you are, because guys like McClellin, Jones, Fuller, Sutton, Ferguson etc have all been given ample opportunity to beat out guys that Pace/Fox brought in.

I just think Vereen has failed to impress at FS. Once he lost that job you have to be good on ST. We're horrible on Special Teams and the guy we brought in from the Jags are Special Teams specialists.

It could be perceived that leaves us a little thin at safety. But by all accounts the team like Harold Jones-Quartey and he can play both FS and SS - so he's backup at both spots. We have Ryan Mundy and Anthony Jefferson on the IR also. Jefferson is really athletic and will be given a chance to win a job next year I think. So any safeties we do bring in a predominately to improve the horrible ST unit.
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