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  #29811  
Old 07.11.2017, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by HSTDriver View Post
An unsurprising move. Bilic largely a victim of the board. Moyes certainly won’t do any better, I feel.

The way West Ham are being run, Bilic is probably better off out of it.
not sure if Bilic was that good or just lucky to have 1 great season of Payet.the board definetly messed up the transfers over the last few seasons and don't see Moyes doing much than making them more defensive and he better hope Carroll can get and stay fit.

even everton seem to be going after big sam on a short term deal as the manager market is bare and the good targets in jobs seem reluctant to move.
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  #29812  
Old 08.11.2017, 10:10 PM
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well i suppose we could just reward the worst teams with the best new players

relegation gives everything an extra edge, teams should move on and fight for cups some never feel that safe.

most systems work for there sport, there would be no way to bring in an NFL system to the Prem.

also the closed system kills off promotion, do we just randomly pick the 20 sides forever that get to stay in the top league?
is that out of the current 92 or do we do further down?
or just lock out those not in the Prem at that moment.
I would, personally. I don't know how easily I could name the 20 clubs, but there is a fairly clear pecking order of 'size' of clubs. Which does not align to who is in the Premier League right now. Or maybe take certain big clubs out and into a European league.

National leagues were largely broken, a product of the 20th century unable to cope with football in the 21st century. I still feel that way. It is worst in the smaller leagues, with the result that you have teams who dominate domestically, but the small stature of their leagues mean they are not capable of competing in European competition - they're too small for Europe, too big for their domestic league. Celtic is a good example. Structurally a huge club. You see it with the fanbase, the stadium. But they are stuffed in the 21st century because they play in Scotland. Portugal, Netherlands, Greece, Turkey, Serbia... all the same thing.

If I were a big club in the smaller leagues I'd want to get out and into a European league of some sort, because the gap between the smaller national leagues and the richer ones is only going one way. Meanwhile, I dare say that apart from the bumper payday of gate receipts twice a year the rest of the leagues might be happy to get shot of those teams and actually have a chance to compete.

The thing is though that football won't reform itself unless it makes the biggest clubs more money. The big clubs in the big leagues like the current system where they dominate, they don't want to be like the New York Giants, 1-7 in a league where New York is where the money is.
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  #29813  
Old 08.11.2017, 10:19 PM
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so Man City announced a record revenue of £473m today and out of that managed a whole £1.1m profit.there wage bill is currently 56% of its income.
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  #29814  
Old 08.11.2017, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
so Man City announced a record revenue of £473m today and out of that managed a whole £1.1m profit.there wage bill is currently 56% of its income.
According to the Independent:

'Broadcast increased by 21 per cent to £203m while commercial rose even faster, by 23 per cent, to £218m, as City secured new partnerships such as the NexEn sponsorship on this year’s shirt sleeves. City also hosted a series of lucrative concerts at the Etihad Stadium.'

As long as they keep securing new sponsorship deals, and the TV money keeps rolling in, it looks like they can continue to spend big whenever they like. Not that they need too, Ederson, Mendy, Stones, De Bruyne, B Silva, Sane, Sterling, Jesus, their first team is hardly getting on in years is it.
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  #29815  
Old 08.11.2017, 10:47 PM
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I would, personally. I don't know how easily I could name the 20 clubs, but there is a fairly clear pecking order of 'size' of clubs. Which does not align to who is in the Premier League right now. Or maybe take certain big clubs out and into a European league.

National leagues were largely broken, a product of the 20th century unable to cope with football in the 21st century. I still feel that way. It is worst in the smaller leagues, with the result that you have teams who dominate domestically, but the small stature of their leagues mean they are not capable of competing in European competition - they're too small for Europe, too big for their domestic league. Celtic is a good example. Structurally a huge club. You see it with the fanbase, the stadium. But they are stuffed in the 21st century because they play in Scotland. Portugal, Netherlands, Greece, Turkey, Serbia... all the same thing.

If I were a big club in the smaller leagues I'd want to get out and into a European league of some sort, because the gap between the smaller national leagues and the richer ones is only going one way. Meanwhile, I dare say that apart from the bumper payday of gate receipts twice a year the rest of the leagues might be happy to get shot of those teams and actually have a chance to compete.

The thing is though that football won't reform itself unless it makes the biggest clubs more money. The big clubs in the big leagues like the current system where they dominate, they don't want to be like the New York Giants, 1-7 in a league where New York is where the money is.
so thats it the rest are locked out, does this full breakaway somehow snatch all the European places too? or is there a split?

in a open system teams place where they deserve and can make it big. in a closed system a team could just be bad forever.
there would be no draft system to even pep them up.

so to the other 72 + non-league sides, they just get to be told they dont matter?

for me it would be cutting out the heart of the game.



with a big European super league and the risk that comes from losing the current league and CL funds, then given its going to be a closed system, who gets in and left out in the cold. there are teams that havent done that well for a while but have the big name, like Milan.
does this league have some sort of cap system? it would have to be huge to stop others coming up on the rails.

while the likes of Celtic might like the idea of a break away league between those that lack depth. even the ins and outs of that league could be weird with whose in it and if they are willing to give up the Champions League.

there are those trying to push the MLS into a open system. it will likely never happen as turkeys dont tend to vote for xmas.

only so many teams can win, we have a poor GM and a bad HC, with a roster that has issues. things run on cycles and we have a more recent SB win than most sides
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  #29816  
Old 08.11.2017, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by boknows34 View Post
How would a true European league work? Could there be a breakaway of the top 20 teams with no relegation? How many teams from each country would receive an "invite"?
I'd say it would be more like the NFL, bigger than 20 teams, with geographic subdivisions. For example, Spanish and Portuguese teams in one division, something like that. I quite like the idea that young players couldn't be kept in academies and had to play for teams in domestic leagues until age 20 or something and then there would be a draft system, maybe with pre-determined compensation to the teams that lose the players depending on where they are picked. This could actually be a real winner for smaller clubs domestically too, as the big clubs would not be allowed to just keep the talent in their youth and reserve squads, basically playing games behind closed doors. Instead smaller clubs would have the stars of the future to attract fans in. I would also ban loaning of players and ensure there are fixed squad sizes too (outright, not just within a competition but you can have others on the books) to stop bigger teams hoarding players they don't use but who would get into other teams' first XI.
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  #29817  
Old 08.11.2017, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by HSTDriver View Post
An unsurprising move. Bilic largely a victim of the board. Moyes certainly won’t do any better, I feel.

The way West Ham are being run, Bilic is probably better off out of it.
The stadium seems to be at the heart of everything, no? I get the sense this isn't just new home teething problems like Spurs at Wembley but something deeper-seated. I wonder if this is going to be London's answer to the Stadio delle Alpi, Turin's flagship stadium from Italia '90 that ended up shutting just 16 years later and being demolished by 2009. From Wikipedia:

Quote:
The delle Alpi's design was widely criticised due to the poor visibility. This was caused mainly by the distance between the stands and the pitch. Views from the lower tier were also restricted due to the positioning of advertising hoardings.
Sound familiar?
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  #29818  
Old 08.11.2017, 11:29 PM
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so thats it the rest are locked out, does this full breakaway somehow snatch all the European places too? or is there a split?

in a open system teams place where they deserve and can make it big. in a closed system a team could just be bad forever.
there would be no draft system to even pep them up.

so to the other 72 + non-league sides, they just get to be told they dont matter?

for me it would be cutting out the heart of the game.



with a big European super league and the risk that comes from losing the current league and CL funds, then given its going to be a closed system, who gets in and left out in the cold. there are teams that havent done that well for a while but have the big name, like Milan.
does this league have some sort of cap system? it would have to be huge to stop others coming up on the rails.

while the likes of Celtic might like the idea of a break away league between those that lack depth. even the ins and outs of that league could be weird with whose in it and if they are willing to give up the Champions League.

there are those trying to push the MLS into a open system. it will likely never happen as turkeys dont tend to vote for xmas.

only so many teams can win, we have a poor GM and a bad HC, with a roster that has issues. things run on cycles and we have a more recent SB win than most sides
I would split it out. Top teams play in European leagues. These are closed off. In reality they're mostly closed off already.

Everyone else plays domestically. Make the current Europa league for these teams.

Just treat it like college football - different leagues. I would play Euro league games one day of the weekend and domestic ones the other, so that people can watch both. Another lesson from America. Look at how college football has flourished. It's not a question of "they don't matter". If you want to play that card, do you think Grimsby Town or Mansfield 'matter' in the grand scheme of things now? Or in 5 years' time, 50 years' time. In fact, rejigging things may make them matter more. The current system was designed in an era when football was very different to what we have nowadays. It worked in 1900, but not in 2017.

If football carries on like it is, things will only get more uneven. It is no coincidence that while we used to get teams like Red Star, Marseille, Ajax or Porto winning the European Cup or Champions League, even as recently as the 90s and early 2000s, that is now already unthinkable. Do you know how many Champions League finalists we've had from outside the big 4 leagues since the 2003 Porto win by an up-and-coming Mourinho? Zero. A total monopoly by Spain, Italy, England and Germany. The only team that is going to break that is probably PSG. Who were bought out by billionaires who are throwing their money around.
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  #29819  
Old 09.11.2017, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by European Bob View Post
I would split it out. Top teams play in European leagues. These are closed off. In reality they're mostly closed off already.

Everyone else plays domestically. Make the current Europa league for these teams.

Just treat it like college football - different leagues. I would play Euro league games one day of the weekend and domestic ones the other, so that people can watch both. Another lesson from America. Look at how college football has flourished. It's not a question of "they don't matter". If you want to play that card, do you think Grimsby Town or Mansfield 'matter' in the grand scheme of things now? Or in 5 years' time, 50 years' time. In fact, rejigging things may make them matter more. The current system was designed in an era when football was very different to what we have nowadays. It worked in 1900, but not in 2017.

If football carries on like it is, things will only get more uneven. It is no coincidence that while we used to get teams like Red Star, Marseille, Ajax or Porto winning the European Cup or Champions League, even as recently as the 90s and early 2000s, that is now already unthinkable. Do you know how many Champions League finalists we've had from outside the big 4 leagues since the 2003 Porto win by an up-and-coming Mourinho? Zero. A total monopoly by Spain, Italy, England and Germany. The only team that is going to break that is probably PSG. Who were bought out by billionaires who are throwing their money around.
how in reality are they already closed off?
its not the same teams going up and down every season.


so what happens to CL, just the teams in the super league (given you mention the Europa is staying,) which means that competition will be lacking a tad.


given college football used to be the leader then flourished is an odd useage, also it has its stars playing for free.

a few years ago you could of probably made the same point using Brighton and Huddersfield.
how would it make them matter more? an achievement would be meaningless and no chance to get to the big time.
also given college football is the example overall the same teams tend to be around the top and the weaker ones are happy to get there payday beatings.

so in this system you would be having the likes of Red Star in and they will be winning/ in contention against the super powers or just get to be the Browns forever.

there will always be a gap between the good and the great.

the draft system is even worse, first off removing the rights of players and while it probably would be about the same (depending on the compensation) as now for the sides losing players all choice is gone.
America as this setup the way to go, all the major players/teams are in one country, the college system as history and this is a set way.

also logistically its an impossibility, the FAs, Uefa and clubs all agreeing to this.

a breakaway Super League might happen one day but it would be clubs leaving there leagues and things like the CL behind.
it would probably start off in some mega rich way and once it confirms its place as the main league NFL style, things like a cap might creep in if the owners see it as the money maker it is.

tbh i do think its the mentality of a fan of a bigger side (of course in this instance Spurs would end up out in the cold but maybe at the top of the lame tree,) ones of the smaller ones are happy to fight there way to a place in the Prem.
not every reward needs a shiny cup. it might be a smaller target, things do get ruined by billionaires and some become disillusioned but no one seems sad at the idea of promotion and even in a relegation fight there is a reason to cheer your side to victory.


also a little change is needed, Porto won by being bloody jammy, that was one hell of a run of luck.
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  #29820  
Old 09.11.2017, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
so Man City announced a record revenue of £473m today and out of that managed a whole £1.1m profit.there wage bill is currently 56% of its income.
Get over it.

Not all teams are run by business men who need the club to balance the books or make a profit, football isn’t a working class sport anymore it’s a global entertainment business and has been for quite a few years now.

Do you really think the Abu Dhabi group need City to make a big profit? Abramovich said when he took over Chelsea ‘I’ve got other business’ to make me money, this is about having fun’

Fans moaned when City made huge losses, now making a profit, however small it may be isn’t good enough either.

Time to embrace the game of football for what it is today or at the very least accept it.
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