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  #821  
Old 30.04.2019, 08:32 AM
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Given its widely reported they spent the day trying to trade up for him (which Beane didn't deny), I struggle to believe the Bills wouldn't have picked Ed Oliver within their 1st minute if they weren't encouraged not to
Si.com's Albert Breer said Buffalo were thrilled Oliver fell into their lap.

A couple of other points from. Monday Afternoon Quarterback.....

Teams should be worried about Stidham (and Etling) landing with the Pats apparently. Although I'm pretty sure that would be the case with any QB..... because its New England, and everyone fears them so much.

Greedy Williams was apparently a 'draft steal' even though Breer lists all the reasons why he fell. Again though, it's the Brown's, a team on the up with a GM everyone seems to think is a genius. Compare Breer's view on the Browns/Williams to the Jets/Polite/Edoga, and it's a little more 'luke warm' even though they had similar negetive. Breer wasn't negetive about it, but the popular Brown's got a 'steal' whereas the less popular Jets took a 'gamble'.

He had praise for the Cowboys too for drafting with the future in mind, but let's be honest with ourselves - how many of their Day 3 picks make the roster or survive being stashed on the Practice Squad? Hill and McGovern are locks, but I'm looking at Joe Jackson and Jalen Jelks. How many D linemen can they carry, even with a rotation? 10? In that case someone is going to miss out.
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  #822  
Old 30.04.2019, 08:58 AM
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Si.com's Albert Breer said Buffalo were thrilled Oliver fell into their lap.
Beane and McDermott were like kids on Xmas Day in the post draft interview.

Interesting that Ed Oliver said Kyle Williams was the 1st guy to text him after he was drafted and is going to help him. An experienced head like Williams is exactly what Oliver needs, a calm voice to help him mature
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  #823  
Old 30.04.2019, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by RichardCunliffe View Post
Si.com's Albert Breer said Buffalo were thrilled Oliver fell into their lap.

A couple of other points from. Monday Afternoon Quarterback.....

Teams should be worried about Stidham (and Etling) landing with the Pats apparently. Although I'm pretty sure that would be the case with any QB..... because its New England, and everyone fears them so much.
Etling absolutely stinks haha
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  #824  
Old 30.04.2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RichardCunliffe View Post
Si.com's Albert Breer said Buffalo were thrilled Oliver fell into their lap.

A couple of other points from. Monday Afternoon Quarterback.....

Teams should be worried about Stidham (and Etling) landing with the Pats apparently. Although I'm pretty sure that would be the case with any QB..... because its New England, and everyone fears them so much.

Greedy Williams was apparently a 'draft steal' even though Breer lists all the reasons why he fell. Again though, it's the Brown's, a team on the up with a GM everyone seems to think is a genius. Compare Breer's view on the Browns/Williams to the Jets/Polite/Edoga, and it's a little more 'luke warm' even though they had similar negetive. Breer wasn't negetive about it, but the popular Brown's got a 'steal' whereas the less popular Jets took a 'gamble'.

He had praise for the Cowboys too for drafting with the future in mind, but let's be honest with ourselves - how many of their Day 3 picks make the roster or survive being stashed on the Practice Squad? Hill and McGovern are locks, but I'm looking at Joe Jackson and Jalen Jelks. How many D linemen can they carry, even with a rotation? 10? In that case someone is going to miss out.

well thats because on fell a bit on the day and the other was seen as a 3rd rounder going into the draft (maybe a late, 2nd, the 1st round talk had been dead for a while.)
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  #825  
Old 30.04.2019, 03:53 PM
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well thats because on fell a bit on the day and the other was seen as a 3rd rounder going into the draft (maybe a late, 2nd, the 1st round talk had been dead for a while.)
I see that side of it, but:

'He was roundly seen as the most physically gifted corner in the class, but he has a bunch of growing up to do. Williams wasn’t always a willing tackler, and he came off in meetings with teams as having a pretty high opinion of himself. He also showed inconsistency against top-shelf competition (Alabama’s Jerry Jeudy, Georgia’s Riley Ridley)'

So possibly immature, possibly arrogant, not a fan of tackling, and inconsistent against quality opposition. The arrogance, as a DB, isn't a major issue in all likelihood although no one wants that as a 'trait' when paired with immaturity. He's physically gifted, which I accept is what you want in a corner even if he's lacking when it comes to tackling. You want your corner to cover first and foremost. Then there is the inconsistency. Maybe you coach that out of him.

Then there is:

'they rolled the dice with a some high-ceiling but character risks in Florida DE Jachai Polite and USC OT Chuma Edoga. The former is a first-round talent as a pass-rusher, but struggled in the months leading up to the draft, punctuated by a terrible string of combine interviews. The latter has been dogged by maturity questions, some concerning how he’ll handle life as a pro, and is very raw, but has the feet and athleticism to play left tackle in the NFL.'

Polite - So a 1st round talent, like Greedy. Interviewed poorly, possibly like Greedy.

Edoga - Maturity issues, like Greedy. Feet and athleticism of an NFL LT, so physically talented like Greedy.

I know Greedy was always seen as 1st round talent, whereas Polite was a 1st round talent pre-combine, and Edoga was never seen as 1st round talent. It just seems a big drop from 'steal' at 46, to gamble at 68 and 92. I don't doubt Greedy has more physical talent, but I do think Breer's view is based on more than the players talent/character alone. i.e. the differing momentum/staffs/rosters of both teams.

With the Browns roster though Williams clearly has a much higher chance of success (or lower chance of failure) compared to if he landed with the Jets.
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  #826  
Old 30.04.2019, 04:04 PM
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I was surprised by how far these fell:

35 - Jawaan Taylor, OT
41 - Dalton Risner, OT
46 - Greedy Williams, CB
60 - Nasir Adderley, S
77 - Chase Winovich, DE
103 - Hakeem Butler, WR
105 - Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, S
139 - Deionte Thompson, S
146 - Amani Oruwariye, CB
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  #827  
Old 30.04.2019, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RichardCunliffe View Post
I see that side of it, but:

'He was roundly seen as the most physically gifted corner in the class, but he has a bunch of growing up to do. Williams wasn’t always a willing tackler, and he came off in meetings with teams as having a pretty high opinion of himself. He also showed inconsistency against top-shelf competition (Alabama’s Jerry Jeudy, Georgia’s Riley Ridley)'

So possibly immature, possibly arrogant, not a fan of tackling, and inconsistent against quality opposition. The arrogance, as a DB, isn't a major issue in all likelihood although no one wants that as a 'trait' when paired with immaturity. He's physically gifted, which I accept is what you want in a corner even if he's lacking when it comes to tackling. You want your corner to cover first and foremost. Then there is the inconsistency. Maybe you coach that out of him.

Then there is:

'they rolled the dice with a some high-ceiling but character risks in Florida DE Jachai Polite and USC OT Chuma Edoga. The former is a first-round talent as a pass-rusher, but struggled in the months leading up to the draft, punctuated by a terrible string of combine interviews. The latter has been dogged by maturity questions, some concerning how he’ll handle life as a pro, and is very raw, but has the feet and athleticism to play left tackle in the NFL.'

Polite - So a 1st round talent, like Greedy. Interviewed poorly, possibly like Greedy.

Edoga - Maturity issues, like Greedy. Feet and athleticism of an NFL LT, so physically talented like Greedy.

I know Greedy was always seen as 1st round talent, whereas Polite was a 1st round talent pre-combine, and Edoga was never seen as 1st round talent. It just seems a big drop from 'steal' at 46, to gamble at 68 and 92. I don't doubt Greedy has more physical talent, but I do think Breer's view is based on more than the players talent/character alone. i.e. the differing momentum/staffs/rosters of both teams.

With the Browns roster though Williams clearly has a much higher chance of success (or lower chance of failure) compared to if he landed with the Jets.

i guess it depends on the person and there narrative but i would say most would also consider the Jets as a team on the up, not to a Browns level though.


i do kinda see your point but i think maybe they just try to over egg the stakes a bit too.



also another fact is where they were seen in terms of there position, Greedy was some peoples top CB, rarely outside the top 3 for most.
Polite was seen as the lesser of the Edge guys and dropped away from them swiftly.
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  #828  
Old 30.04.2019, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Martz View Post
I was surprised by how far these fell:

35 - Jawaan Taylor, OT
41 - Dalton Risner, OT
46 - Greedy Williams, CB
60 - Nasir Adderley, S
77 - Chase Winovich, DE
103 - Hakeem Butler, WR
105 - Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, S
139 - Deionte Thompson, S
146 - Amani Oruwariye, CB
Taylor only fell because of injury. The scale of fall shows the Jags must have taken a huge gamble on him. For the likes of Houston to pass and him to fall from top 10 to mid 30s shows it must be serious.

Greedy ultimately I'm surprised went as high as he did. The guy doesn't like tackling, which makes him of marginal use. Stick on a big WR or TE on him and see what happens
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  #829  
Old 30.04.2019, 05:51 PM
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from Jeff Howe of the atlantic

in 2018 the Patriots traded Jimmy Garoppolo for the #43 pick

in 2018/19 drafts the patriots packaged that pick and some draft day moves up and down the boards into pretty much....

2018
#56 Duke Dawson
#178 Christian Sam

2019
#45 Joejuan Williams
#87 Damian Harris
#101 Yodny Cajuste
#133 Jarrett Stidman
#159 Byron Cowart

and an extra 2020 4th round pick.

Last edited by lee harris 10; 30.04.2019 at 05:59 PM.
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  #830  
Old 30.04.2019, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
from Jeff Howe of the atlantic

in 2018 the Patriots traded Jimmy Garoppolo for the #43 pick

in 2018/19 drafts the patriots packaged that pick and some draft day moves up and down the boards into pretty much....

2018
#56 Duke Dawson
#178 Christian Sam

2019
#45 Joejuan Williams
#87 Damian Harris
#101 Yodny Cajuste
#133 Jarrett Stidman
#159 Byron Cowart

and an extra 2020 4th round pick.
I'll hopefully have a proper look at this at a later date, but a quick look shows the Pats packaged their own 63 with pick 117 they got from the trade down from 43, to get Dawson. They also used their 101 with the Bears pick (56) to go up and get Joejuan Williams at pick 45.

That quick glimpse, as it stands, shows it's a lot more complicated than is being made out. They've used plenty of their own ammo to turn pick 43 into that list.
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