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  #521  
Old 09.03.2006, 04:59 PM
seahawks_fan_james seahawks_fan_james is offline
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would that be because of the fact they were held apart for so long that everyone wanted to see them wrestle each other?

Quote:
I have no problems with your beliefs but wonder if you can answer why the 'internet wrestling community' feels the need to impose their views
any chance you gonna back up your statement with reasons? as i said the reason i liked austin rock 2 was because of the build up and finish.
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  #522  
Old 09.03.2006, 05:03 PM
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Simple I just didn't enjoy the matches as much as the first one.

Austin v Rock 2 - the ending didn't seam right Austin couldn't get over as a heel. I never bought into it.

Austin v Rock 3 - I just seam like the spark both men once had was gone sad but ture.

Hope this help
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  #523  
Old 09.03.2006, 05:09 PM
seahawks_fan_james seahawks_fan_james is offline
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fair enough, it just gripes me when people say oh that match sucked without giving a reason. if you didnt enjoy it i can understand that.

apparently the night before the 3rd match austin was in hospital after suffering a seizure. add to this the fact the rock had been back in the wwe for less than 2 months and you go some way to explaining the lack of chemistry.
That being said i thought some of the psychological spots in the match were good such as the rock wearing austins waistcoat.
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  #524  
Old 09.03.2006, 05:51 PM
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[quote author=seahawks_fan_james link=board=8;threadid=15643;start=510#msg439422 date=1141923044]
horrorshow, can i ask a question?

as you so clearly despise everything that the wwe does, why do you continue to watch?

you so clearly find so much more enjoyment cheering for independent wrestlers why waste time and money on following a federation you have a clear disdain for?

your use of terminology and knowledge in your post clearly indicates you to be smarter than the average 'mark'.

i have no problems with your beliefs but wonder if you can answer why the 'internet wrestling community' feels the need to impose their views on the casual wrestling fan?

if someone watches raw and enjoys triple Hs character with no knowledge of his supposed backstage pull, why should they be considered less of a fan?

and vice versa i think you know my opinion of independent wrestlers, and my putting on a pedestal of the immortal one.
does this make me less educated?

When ECW used to be shown on bravo i saw it and didnt enjoy its style, as did many others, does this make me less of a wrestling fan?

anyways my fave 3 mania matches, pick em apart, (which i know you will ;D)

1st WM19 Hogan v Mcmahon. My first time seeing my hero live, i watch this match back over regularly and it always brings a shiver.

2nd WM7 Hogan v Sgt Slaughter. As a kid i really got into the storyline of slaughter turning against hogan and his country and to see him hulk up after the outrage of being pinned under the flag to comeback and win after bleeding for the first time. story telling at its finest

3rd WM17 Rock v Austin 2, A great build up with a fantastic showdown match. And the twist at the end with no internet spoilers came as a shock to anyone who had seen the austin mcmahon feud.
[/quote]

Seahawks_fan_james,

To answer your question about why I continue to watch WWE, well, as I've said on previous posts throughout this thread I don't anymore...or not much at least. I still read WWE reports online and occasionally see the odd Raw / Smackdown, PPV and live event ( I caught Raw in Sheffield recently ) as WWE is undoubtedly the biggest promotion in the world and being a fan of the whole wide world of pro-wrestling I try to keep up to date with what happens in McMahon-Land.

There are two reasons why I'm such a vocal critic of WWE. One is because it SHOULD be the best promotion in the world and IMHO it isn't. Secondly, WWE is the reason I'm a pro-wrestling fan. I loved the WWF when I was a kid in the 80's and because of that I will always have a soft spot for the place...no matter how poorly it performs, no matter how badly it books matches or mis-uses talent and no matter how much it insults the fan's intelligence. WWE has an amazing roster but hardly anyone is allowed to wrestle to their abilities. Everyone has to work in handcuffs and that really gets under my skin.

Through the WWF I got into the NWA and Jim Crockett Promotions, then WCW, then ECW and then independent wrestling as a whole...but without the WWF capturing my imagination as a child none of that would have happened.

Today I infinitely prefer independent wrestling over WWE. I'm not a big fan of sports-entertainment. Vincent Junior made wrestling a dirty word but the actual wrestling, the in-ring product is what I look for most in a promotion and WWE is clearly IMHO inferior to several North American and Japanese promotions in this area.

I like TNA but it is flawed, perhaps fatally so. My favourite promotions in recent times have been Mike Quackenbush's Chikara and Ring of Honor. It means little to me that these promotions lack the " Big Names ", video walls, custom entrance music and pyrotechnics. These promotions come more from the heart IMHO and are more sincere than the corporate monster that WWE is and that appeals to me.

To answer your other question regarding why the internet wrestling community feels the need to impose their views on the casual wrestling fan, well that's difficult for me to address as I'm not a member of said community.

If someone watches WWE and enjoys it, great that's cool. If someone enjoys Triple H's efforts then again, great. A pro-wrestling fan is a pro-wrestling fan whether they've been watching for two minutes or like you and me two decades. Smart marks who " know " more about the business are no more fans than anyone else and no more educated.

Each to their own I guess. The beauty of pro-wrestling is it's diversity. There's something out there for everyone. It's like a circus. If you don't like the lion-tamer you might like the clowns...if you don't like the knife-thrower you might like the human cannon-ball. You have your tastes, I have mine and the next guy has his.

Pro-wrestling has so much to offer and WWE should be at the forefront of that, leading the way but after the demise of ECW and WCW it's never been the same...
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  #525  
Old 09.03.2006, 06:07 PM
seahawks_fan_james seahawks_fan_james is offline
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interesting read,

like you say some people look for different things from wrestling, i take it you enjoy the high flying/high risk manoevers.

i am much more of a fan of the whole package, big names and surroundings, much more of a major league feel.
it just grates me when people slate the wwe due to the fact they feel that they have to or they will be thought of as less of a fan.

if you read any wrestling message board (lordsofpain,prowrestling) if one person makes a comment theres always 10 people responding saying the original poster is wrong.
I have never understood why this seems so prevalent with wrestling as opposed to other sports :-\

I have been to a lot of wrestling events, mainly wwe in this country and in the states and i always see the same sort of 'internet people' while i'm there.
They always seem to spend more money to get ringside seats and spend the whole time telling anyone who will listen about how much better it would be if it was a sabu v rob van dam main event, and how much better the independent show they went to the week before was.
i just think why do they bother, if your going to a show enjoy it, dont spend all your time picking matches apart because a rest hold was 10 seconds too long or triple H took too long to cover his opponent.

btw, i went to the raw show in sheffield this year, where were you sat? i was at the back as i waited to get some cheap tickets off ebay. £15 for 2 x £20 tickets ;D

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  #526  
Old 09.03.2006, 09:52 PM
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The junior have been fired from WWE I miss you Super Porky :'(
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  #527  
Old 10.03.2006, 09:08 AM
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my view on seahawks_fan_james' point is that sometime people feel they can't like certain wrestlers because it's not cool amongst the internet community, rather than just forming their own opinion. You always here them talk about these indi wrestlers and they build them up and they become cool to like. I can't accept that such a large number of people can all have the same opinions. I think people just feel more knowledgable if they like a wrestler that the casual fan won't have heard of.

Invariably they do make it to the WWE but then if they don't do too well VKM gets slated. Now I am not against slating him as he is sometimes an idiot and sometimes when I see the storylines etc I feel he has lost the plot. But if VKM always got it wrong as the internet fans feel why does the WWE continue to thrive.

I am not into wrestling like I was in my teens. Now I just watch WWE and the main reason I watch it over any indi promotions is the WWE is the whole package. I want to see the characters forming, the entrance music, the fudes, even the wacky storylines. There are a lot of excellent indi wrestlers but I would personally prefer to watch the glitz and glamour of the WWE rather than indi wrestlers in a school hall.

I am not ashamed to say that I enjoy watching the Boogey Man - on second thoughts maybe I am a little :-[
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  #528  
Old 10.03.2006, 09:46 AM
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[quote author=seahawks_fan_james link=board=8;threadid=15643;start=510#msg439462 date=1141927644]
interesting read,

like you say some people look for different things from wrestling, i take it you enjoy the high flying/high risk manoevers.

i am much more of a fan of the whole package, big names and surroundings, much more of a major league feel.
it just grates me when people slate the wwe due to the fact they feel that they have to or they will be thought of as less of a fan.

if you read any wrestling message board (lordsofpain,prowrestling) if one person makes a comment theres always 10 people responding saying the original poster is wrong.
I have never understood why this seems so prevalent with wrestling as opposed to other sports :-\

I have been to a lot of wrestling events, mainly wwe in this country and in the states and i always see the same sort of 'internet people' while i'm there.
They always seem to spend more money to get ringside seats and spend the whole time telling anyone who will listen about how much better it would be if it was a sabu v rob van dam main event, and how much better the independent show they went to the week before was.
i just think why do they bother, if your going to a show enjoy it, dont spend all your time picking matches apart because a rest hold was 10 seconds too long or triple H took too long to cover his opponent.

btw, i went to the raw show in sheffield this year, where were you sat? i was at the back as i waited to get some cheap tickets off ebay. £15 for 2 x £20 tickets ;D


[/quote]

Seahawks_fan_James,

I'm more into the mat-based, chain wrestling style and Japanese Puroresu but I like to see a diverse set of styles in a promotion or at a show.

I can appreciate the fact that you prefer the whole major league feel that WWE has over other smaller promotions. I can relate to your dislike of people slating WWE just because they think it's the cool and hip thing to do because it annoys me when WWE fans slate independent promotions when they've seen next to nothing of their product or what their workers can do.

I stay away from online wrestling message boards. They are always full of negative comments and people trying to one up everyone else to look clever, which is a bit of a waste of time IMHO.

I know what you mean about the " internet people " you mentioned that you see at wrestling shows. The whole point of going to a show is to enjoy it, no matter what the promotion is - not just sit there moaning about how poor it is and how it'd be so much better if they brought this guy in, or pushed so and so, or put the belt on such and such.

I've been to several shows in the last last few months - both independent and promoted by WWE and I've enjoyed them all for what they were and got into the spirit of things whether that means cheering on Batista in Sheffield just before Survivor Series or jaw-jacking with Steve Corino at ringside at an indie show!
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  #529  
Old 10.03.2006, 10:24 AM
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[quote author=Blue_Moon link=board=8;threadid=15643;start=525#msg439661 date=1141981685]
my view on seahawks_fan_james' point is that sometime people feel they can't like certain wrestlers because it's not cool amongst the internet community, rather than just forming their own opinion. You always here them talk about these indi wrestlers and they build them up and they become cool to like. I can't accept that such a large number of people can all have the same opinions. I think people just feel more knowledgable if they like a wrestler that the casual fan won't have heard of.

Invariably they do make it to the WWE but then if they don't do too well VKM gets slated. Now I am not against slating him as he is sometimes an idiot and sometimes when I see the storylines etc I feel he has lost the plot. But if VKM always got it wrong as the internet fans feel why does the WWE continue to thrive.

I am not into wrestling like I was in my teens. Now I just watch WWE and the main reason I watch it over any indi promotions is the WWE is the whole package. I want to see the characters forming, the entrance music, the fudes, even the wacky storylines. There are a lot of excellent indi wrestlers but I would personally prefer to watch the glitz and glamour of the WWE rather than indi wrestlers in a school hall.

I am not ashamed to say that I enjoy watching the Boogey Man - on second thoughts maybe I am a little :-[

[/quote]

Good post, Blue_Moon - lots of fair points raised.

I agree with you that sometimes people don't form their own opinions and that they just jump on the latest band-wagon, championing the latest indie wrestler to make a splash on the scene and calling him the next big thing. I think it's just people trying to look clever, trying to score points and one-up others.

As a huge mark for the indie scene I do find it frustrating when someone who's done well for themselves or obviously has bags of talent makes it to WWE only to then find themselves lost in the mix and jobbing on Heat or Velocity. I find it frustrating because VKM seems to handcuff most of his workers.

WWE rarely encorages it's talent to go out there and pull out all the stops. More often it seems that guys are told not to do certain moves, not to upstage the " bigger star " they're in there with and to me that's nonsensical. Surely you should be telling everyone to perform to the best of their abilities. WWE has made so many workers look like complete jobbers by handcuffing them. The list of names I could mention as examples is extremely long and getting longer all of the time.

Naturally it's up to WWE who they push, who they bury but I just thing it's crazy not to let everyone, whether they're PPV main eventers or dark match curtain jerkers be allowed to perform to their best abilities in the ring.

Having said that, who am I to criticise? The WWE formula is a roaring success and will continue to be so. It's just not my cup of tea anymore. I'll still follow the fortunes of WWE because of the massive role it plays in the pro-wrestling as a whole but nine times out of ten I'd rather watch an independent or Japanese promotion. Each to their own!
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  #530  
Old 10.03.2006, 11:03 AM
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Don't forget there has to be jobbers in the WWE as it is much more based upon storeys and characters. Indi matches are usually 2 wrestlers both going at it giving it their all. WWE usually needs to do a few squash matches to build up a wrestlers profile so that he comes across as a genuine main eventer or to develop a story. If every wrestler was told to go out and perform they couldn't develop the likes of Kane, Undertaker and Brock Lesner as they were given dominating characters who needed to destroy there opponents for the angle to work.

VKM has to find his jobbers from somewhere. Plus if they impress in this role there is a chance he may use them. There are plenty of wrestlers who have started jobbing and developed into established WWE stars.

Also a lot of these indi stars such as AJ Styles, CM Punk, Chris Daniels etc are small and lightweight. They are extremely good at what they do but I don't think it would be convincing to see them battling Chris Masters because of the difference in size. I know they are doing this with Ray a the moment and I don't like that. VKM likes his big muscled stars as main eventers and that's a big reason the indi stars rarely seem to transfer well to WWE.
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