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  #4471  
Old 09.10.2017, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by davidjones178@hotmail.co.uk View Post
Are we at rock bottom yet?

In a 3 way battle for the top pick now, and I think we have a very good chance.

Eli needs to go - at the end of the season or next summer. If only because we are paying him what? $13m a year? Well, you don't need a V6 engine in a golf cart.

Any thoughts on Davis Webb?
rock bottom is next week, we are playing the Broncos on SNF, it could end something like 70-0.

its still better to have a great QB than just someone cheap, he is one of the only pieces that work in this team.

Webb is raw and needs to learn behind Eli.

at the moment i'm in tear it all down mode in terms of coaches and GM.
nothing is working and they have all cocked it up.

we need to get in a staff that what to pound the rock and play D.
that would then allow Eli to rip teams apart, rather than just knowing get past our weak OL and its game over.
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  #4472  
Old 09.10.2017, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by spit-fire View Post
It's ridiculous to scapegoat Eli. He's been good these last couple of weeks.
If you read my post again you'll see I'm not scapegoating him. I said he was the V6 engine in the golf cart.

But I don't see how keeping him helps. He is 36, he is not (and never has been) a mobile QB - and those two traits are poorly suited to our leaky O line.

He got sacked 5 times on Sunday. Should have been more. He's going to get hurt. Just like everyone else!

If it was one or two things, they are things you can fix and be competitive. But where to start?

Playcalling? Tackling? O-Line? Run defence? The Chargers are not high powered opponents. They are cellar dwellers too!

And next week is the Broncos.

There is no option to keep Eli for the long term. He doesn't have a long term left. If the Giants decide to make sweeping changes, that money could be better spent, because it could well be that we won't be competitive any time during his remaining career.

If the Giants are not going to make sweeping changes, just what will it take?

It's harsh because I like Eli, but I don't think the Giants are the team where he will do a Peyton and eke out a final Superbowl run. If we don't get rid of him after this season, then we face ending next season with a 38 year old QB near the end of his contract, with only a small cap hit, and surely he will go then.

Gallman was a pleasure though.
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  #4473  
Old 09.10.2017, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by davidjones178@hotmail.co.uk View Post
Are we at rock bottom yet?

In a 3 way battle for the top pick now, and I think we have a very good chance.

Eli needs to go - at the end of the season or next summer. If only because we are paying him what? $13m a year? Well, you don't need a V6 engine in a golf cart.

Any thoughts on Davis Webb?
I'd say 0-16 would be rock bottom, which I think is now a possibility. Losing at home to a west coast team in an early game that hadn't won in 9 games, plus losing our star player for the season, is about as close to rock bottom as it gets though.

I'm of the opinion that we need to completely clean house. I've had enough of Reese, apart from Beckham and Collins I don't think any of his other draft picks since SB46 have made a significant contribution to this team. The OL has been the weakness of the offense for years and he's failed to address it. His talent evaluation in general leaves a lot to be desired. Not doing anything to strengthen the OL over the last off-season, when everyone could see it was a liability, was a recipe for disaster.

With every loss, McAdoo looks more and more like a rabbit in the headlights. He seems unwilling to move away from his Green Bay system, even though it's clearly not working. He's never been committed to the run, even in games where we've had success like Sunday. His playcalling is questionnable too, for example we've left many points on the field as a result of him going for it on 4th down and failing. Many point to the 11-5 record last season as a case for him staying but I would say that record was a combination of a favourable schedule, OBJ turning simple slants into TDs and a dominant defense (which has inexplicably fallen off this season).

Eli is a difficult one but I feel like sentiment cannot overrule logic. The truth is we're not winning a SB anytime soon, let alone within the years left on his contract. If Reese and McAdoo are fired and we have a top 3 pick, then it's the perfect time for the new GM/coach tandem to draft our next QB. Especially as it sounds like a strong QB draft. Unless Webb is the answer of course. I like how he comes across in interviews but we need to see him in proper game action which is why I think it would be a good idea for him to play the last 4-5 games of the season. If we're 0-10 or 1-10 there's nothing to be gained by playing Eli at that stage. We need to see what we have in Webb.

On the other hand, knowing how unpredictable the Giants are, I wouldn't be surprised to see us somehow win 5 games. That would probably be enough for Mara to justify retaining Reese and Mac (we know how much of a stickler he is for continuity). I think that's why it will be interesting to see how this season plays out. We could either be heading for a completely new era or a continuation of the same...
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  #4474  
Old 09.10.2017, 10:57 PM
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i think they will stick with Reese through anything.

Elis value is not just on the field but as someone who can help develop the next guy.

he is taking up cap space but unless it stops us keeping someone then its not a big issue at this moment. now if some one offered something good for him, unlikely to happen, then i would think about it.

finding the next QB could take forever, its not easy and even teams with someone decent want to move on.

things can change quickly in the NFL, a good offseason next year can put us back on course but i'm not sure if we are wiling to make the big moves.
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  #4475  
Old 10.10.2017, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidjones178@hotmail.co.uk View Post
If you read my post again you'll see I'm not scapegoating him. I said he was the V6 engine in the golf cart.
Agreed, I knew the point you were making, but the point I was making, albeit in a bit of an inflammatory way, is that Eli is not the problem. Cutting him would just create bigger problems for us. It is absolutely not the answer. As for cap space, you would save about £10m, but lose £12.4m in dead money. He also has a no-trade clause in his contract, so that is a non-starter.

To use your own analogy, you have a V6 engine and a golf cart.
If you want to make a supercar, you get rid of the chassis. Ditch the engine and how have you progressed?

Last edited by spit-fire; 10.10.2017 at 09:22 AM.
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  #4476  
Old 10.10.2017, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by spit-fire View Post
To use your own analogy, you have a V6 engine and a golf cart.
If you want to make a supercar, you get rid of the chassis. Ditch the engine and how have you progressed?
I don't suppose it matters if he stays or goes at the end if this season, if we lose the cap either way.

But even if he stays, his replacement needs to be high on the agenda. Whether that is Webb or someone we draft, or trade for, I would like us to go into next season with a likely guy - and if the guy seems ready, play him.

Personally I think Eli has declined a bit. He seems to overthrow almost everything. Balls frequently too high to catch or too long to reach.

But I appreciate that is not everyone's view.
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  #4477  
Old 10.10.2017, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by goodkarma84 View Post
i think they will stick with Reese through anything.

Elis value is not just on the field but as someone who can help develop the next guy.

he is taking up cap space but unless it stops us keeping someone then its not a big issue at this moment. now if some one offered something good for him, unlikely to happen, then i would think about it.

finding the next QB could take forever, its not easy and even teams with someone decent want to move on.

things can change quickly in the NFL, a good offseason next year can put us back on course but i'm not sure if we are wiling to make the big moves.
If we finish with 2-3 wins or less I’m hoping that Mara will be pressured into firing Reese considering how high the expectations for the team were going into this season. I fear you could be right if we finish 5-11 or better though. Now we have nothing to play for I’m hoping we lose as many games as possible to force the shake up and get us a high draft pick.

I hear you regarding Eli, we basically can’t let him go unless he retires but I think we need to be seriously preparing for post-Eli, starting now. It’s why I think we need to play Webb in the last 4-5 games of the season to see if he’s the future. If not we can then target one of the highly rated QBs in the draft as Eli’s replacement.

It’s sad that Eli’s career is going to finish on a whimper but the blame lies firmly with Reese for not making the most of Eli’s prime years and making him play behind a sub standard line for the last 6 seasons.
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  #4478  
Old 10.10.2017, 11:14 PM
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Odell Beckham, Dwayne Harris and Brandon Marshall are now all on IR.

Has any team lost 3 wide receivers to IR in the same game before? Including the top 2? Sounds like some sort of record to me.

I swear the Giants have some kind of leg injury curse with wide receivers.

Burress, Hixon, Cruz, now Harris, Beckham, Marshall.. anybody good gets struck down by the football gods, one way or another.
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  #4479  
Old 11.10.2017, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidjones178@hotmail.co.uk View Post
I don't suppose it matters if he stays or goes at the end if this season, if we lose the cap either way.

But even if he stays, his replacement needs to be high on the agenda. Whether that is Webb or someone we draft, or trade for, I would like us to go into next season with a likely guy - and if the guy seems ready, play him.

Personally I think Eli has declined a bit. He seems to overthrow almost everything. Balls frequently too high to catch or too long to reach.

But I appreciate that is not everyone's view.
This I can largely agree with. If we get that top 3 pick, it's certainly worth taking one of the premier QBs available. Maybe we will be able to sit him as the Chiefs are with Mahomes, BEFORE we have real QB problems.
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  #4480  
Old 11.10.2017, 06:22 PM
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DRC has been suspended after reportedly leaving practice early. McAdoo hasn’t said why exactly but I’m sure we’ll hear more in the coming days. This team is falling apart, what a shambles.
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