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  #15391  
Old 18.08.2018, 09:37 AM
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anyone else wise to the hypocritcal fact of the US' pentagon fear and war-mongering BS ?:
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/16/p...-us/index.html

i mean china don't invade, occupy, terrorise, radicalise etc etc etc etc foreign lands ....
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  #15392  
Old 18.08.2018, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Two-minute drill View Post
anyone else wise to the hypocritcal fact of the US' pentagon fear and war-mongering BS ?:
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/16/p...-us/index.html

i mean china don't invade, occupy, terrorise, radicalise etc etc etc etc foreign lands ....
bit worried until I noticed it was CNN which means its just made up fake news probably attributed to "an un-named sources".
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  #15393  
Old 18.08.2018, 05:59 PM
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so it looks like Corbyn could now be looking at a 30 day Commons suspension for either failing to declare his Tunisia trip 2014 which reportedly cost more than £600 threshold or the fact he took part in a commons debate on Palestine the week later and didn't declare his previous weeks free-be.
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  #15394  
Old 19.08.2018, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
so it looks like Corbyn could now be looking at a 30 day Commons suspension for either failing to declare his Tunisia trip 2014 which reportedly cost more than £600 threshold or the fact he took part in a commons debate on Palestine the week later and didn't declare his previous weeks free-be.
You should be nervous. I think Corbyn staying as Labour leader is the biggest factor in there being a hard Brexit. If he ends up having to quit and Labour get a new leader who is more moderate and less fence-sitting on Brexit, then those Tory MPs who oppose a hard brexit (which is the majority of them) are less likely to worry about voting against, and possibly toppling, the government. It is fear of a Corbyn government above anything else that is whipping Tory MPs who are not OK with the government's stance on Brexit to tow the line. As while Brexit is a big deal to these people, political ideology is even bigger. And I suspect many of these types of Tory MP, mostly talked about as being on the 'left' of the Tory parliamentary party, could live with a moderate centre/centre-left Labour government and stopping this Brexit disaster. But they draw the line at doing something that might let in a Corbyn government, especially when that government might well try to push through a hard Brexit of its own anyway under some kind of delusion that it might be good for workers.
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  #15395  
Old 20.08.2018, 12:11 PM
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You should be nervous. I think Corbyn staying as Labour leader is the biggest factor in there being a hard Brexit. If he ends up having to quit and Labour get a new leader who is more moderate and less fence-sitting on Brexit, then those Tory MPs who oppose a hard brexit (which is the majority of them) are less likely to worry about voting against, and possibly toppling, the government. It is fear of a Corbyn government above anything else that is whipping Tory MPs who are not OK with the government's stance on Brexit to tow the line. As while Brexit is a big deal to these people, political ideology is even bigger. And I suspect many of these types of Tory MP, mostly talked about as being on the 'left' of the Tory parliamentary party, could live with a moderate centre/centre-left Labour government and stopping this Brexit disaster. But they draw the line at doing something that might let in a Corbyn government, especially when that government might well try to push through a hard Brexit of its own anyway under some kind of delusion that it might be good for workers.
That's one way of looking at it. However, it's not as simple as Tory MP's being prepared to live with a Labour Government. In the event of an election and a Labour Government, a lot of Tory MP's will presumably no longer be MP's at all!

Presumably that is the issue for many of them.

If Tory remainer MP's don't feel their seats are safe with the decidedly unelectable Corbyn running the opposition, why would they feel any safer with a more electable Labour leader?

Either they are prepared to risk an election or not.

I wonder now whether it wouldn't have been better if Boris had won the Tory leadership. That way he would have had to take responsibility for his undeliverable promises.
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  #15396  
Old 20.08.2018, 06:29 PM
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You should be nervous. I think Corbyn staying as Labour leader is the biggest factor in there being a hard Brexit. If he ends up having to quit and Labour get a new leader who is more moderate and less fence-sitting on Brexit, then those Tory MPs who oppose a hard brexit (which is the majority of them) are less likely to worry about voting against, and possibly toppling, the government. It is fear of a Corbyn government above anything else that is whipping Tory MPs who are not OK with the government's stance on Brexit to tow the line. As while Brexit is a big deal to these people, political ideology is even bigger. And I suspect many of these types of Tory MP, mostly talked about as being on the 'left' of the Tory parliamentary party, could live with a moderate centre/centre-left Labour government and stopping this Brexit disaster. But they draw the line at doing something that might let in a Corbyn government, especially when that government might well try to push through a hard Brexit of its own anyway under some kind of delusion that it might be good for workers.
everybody should be nervous about Corbyn been anywhere near 10 Downing St.

good point but the Labour party would be split in two if Corbyn was removed as leader as the new "momentum" members would never accept a moderate "new Labour" type replacement.

with the Conservatives Anna Sourbry has been all over reports that thousands of Leave.EU members are trying to join the party to make sure any new leader will be all about "hard BREXIT.

seems both main parties have internal issues but maybe there current leaders are an issue but also stopping all out war if either left.
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  #15397  
Old 20.08.2018, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by davidjones178@hotmail.co.uk View Post
That's one way of looking at it. However, it's not as simple as Tory MP's being prepared to live with a Labour Government. In the event of an election and a Labour Government, a lot of Tory MP's will presumably no longer be MP's at all!

Presumably that is the issue for many of them.

If Tory remainer MP's don't feel their seats are safe with the decidedly unelectable Corbyn running the opposition, why would they feel any safer with a more electable Labour leader?

Either they are prepared to risk an election or not.

I wonder now whether it wouldn't have been better if Boris had won the Tory leadership. That way he would have had to take responsibility for his undeliverable promises.
that seems to be the story according to insiders that the conservative MP's know that any kind of leadership change that leads to the need for another election could have them losing there jobs

Labour are still 3 points up in the latest polls and UKIP are getting some support now which even more eats into the Blue vote and Farage saying he will be coming back will possibly hurt the tory grass routes a bit more.
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  #15398  
Old 20.08.2018, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
everybody should be nervous about Corbyn been anywhere near 10 Downing St.

good point but the Labour party would be split in two if Corbyn was removed as leader as the new "momentum" members would never accept a moderate "new Labour" type replacement.

with the Conservatives Anna Sourbry has been all over reports that thousands of Leave.EU members are trying to join the party to make sure any new leader will be all about "hard BREXIT.

seems both main parties have internal issues but maybe there current leaders are an issue but also stopping all out war if either left.
Which all goes to show that a general election post-referendum was not a barometer on Brexit. Brexit is not a party political issue, at least not among the two big parties. Lib Dems and UKIP, OK. But then neither of those did very well last time so what does that say?

Infiltration threat is real. If we ever have some kind of extreme left/right government it is going to be through infiltration of Labour or the Conservatives, not some new party. In England and America you don't win by making up some new party, at least not for the last hundred and something years. Politics is extremely tribal in the UK. You can sometimes break the tribal traditions, as we saw in Scotland with the SNP, or Thatcher with the M25 town/working class London overspills. But it is not easy.
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  #15399  
Old 20.08.2018, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee harris 10 View Post
that seems to be the story according to insiders that the conservative MP's know that any kind of leadership change that leads to the need for another election could have them losing there jobs

Labour are still 3 points up in the latest polls and UKIP are getting some support now which even more eats into the Blue vote and Farage saying he will be coming back will possibly hurt the tory grass routes a bit more.
Depends where it is.... UKIP can just as easily eat into the red vote. Take Grimsby for example. Very pro-Leave in 2016. In 2015, UKIP gets about 8,500 votes at the general election. Two years later, it's down to about 1,500. 7,000 2015 UKIP voters go elsewhere in 2017, and while more go Conservative than Labour, Labour still seem to have got 2-3000 of those votes.
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  #15400  
Old 22.08.2018, 03:39 AM
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we already smelt it but it looks like its hitting the fan now for Trump.


it seems all of Trumps little nicknames can be applied to him.
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