Politics - Page 1001 - NFL UK Forums
NFL UK Mobile Logo
Go Back   NFL UK Forums > Miscellaneous > Off-Topic - Entertainment/News

  #10001  
Old 30.09.2015, 12:55 PM
LesterHayes's Avatar
LesterHayes LesterHayes is offline
All Pro
 
Join Date: 21.08.2012
Posts: 3,179
Default

Gotta go with David on this one.

Firstly, I don't think anyone disagrees that smoking is a dirty and unhealthy habit. Many people die as a direct result of it. Of course many people also die jogging, driving cars, scuba diving etc. and many more pick up all sorts of health problems (early death included) from too much alcohol, sugar or red meat. A friend of mine has been recently diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes as a direct result of a bad diet and a sedentary lifestyle.

Now the question is that if the government decides (perhaps with good intentions) to ban smoking because its a dirty and unhealthy habit shouldn't they ban alcohol for the self same reason? If their motives are to save lives then perhaps all extreme sports should also be banned. How many people are killed in cars every year? Lets put a stop to that too perhaps?

People often trot out the passive smoking line and use it as an excuse to ban smoking: "Your smoke may be fine killing you but I don't want to die from it too thanks". Follow that logic then we should ban cars because they often kill innocent bystanders and ban alcohol because of the violence that's often associated with drinking too much of it. Everyone thinks that the government knows where to draw the line (and may be the car analogy is stretching things ) but what about the demon drink?

Kills a large percentage of it's users? Check
Generally bad for you? Yup
Expensive and addictive? You bet
Other people affected by users? Take a trip to any A&E on a Friday night and see for yourself

No-one's trying to ban alcohol in pubs despite the risk pub workers are put under by working in a pub are they? Well at least not yet they're not....
Reply With Quote
  #10002  
Old 30.09.2015, 01:03 PM
Bowman's Avatar
Bowman Bowman is offline
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: 01.10.2014
Posts: 977
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidjones178@hotmail.co.uk View Post
I'm not a smoker! Never have been.
How about a beer then?

I agree that the smoking ban was one small step on the road to elimination of choice, erosion of civil liberties etc.

It is because of the "well, it doesn't affect me" attitude that this sort of thing will continue and the nanny state will rule supreme! See what Johnny is doing and tell him to stop it.

For a non-smoker, you were very eloquent on the subject.

As for Labour and Trident, their attitude makes no sense at all. You are either in favour of nuclear weapons or against them. You cannot spend millions (billions?) on a weapons system and then refuse to use it. But then we are getting an aircraft carrier with no aircraft to fly from it, I believe.

... And someone beat me to the first line.

Last edited by Bowman; 30.09.2015 at 01:07 PM. Reason: Slow typing
Reply With Quote
  #10003  
Old 30.09.2015, 01:40 PM
Bowman's Avatar
Bowman Bowman is offline
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: 01.10.2014
Posts: 977
Default

Oh, by the way, from tomorrow it will be illegal to smoke in your car if one of your passengers is under 18, but not illegal for a 17 year old to smoke whilst driving as long as no one else in the car is under 18. Very well thought out that one.

And from next year, smoking will be banned in prisons as well. No risk of rising tensions there then, as all the prisoners will be stoned on cannabis they have grown in the prison greenhouse!
Reply With Quote
  #10004  
Old 30.09.2015, 02:25 PM
LesterHayes's Avatar
LesterHayes LesterHayes is offline
All Pro
 
Join Date: 21.08.2012
Posts: 3,179
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowman View Post
Oh, by the way, from tomorrow it will be illegal to smoke in your car if one of your passengers is under 18, but not illegal for a 17 year old to smoke whilst driving as long as no one else in the car is under 18. Very well thought out that one.

And from next year, smoking will be banned in prisons as well. No risk of rising tensions there then, as all the prisoners will be stoned on cannabis they have grown in the prison greenhouse!
A talking head on Radio 4 at lunchtime was asked about this and said that, among it's many irrefutable horrors, smoking in a car was a fire risk!!

Brilliant.

I was going to point out the strange logic that bans smoking in public places but that it's still fine in prison. Looks like that ones been cleared up.
Reply With Quote
  #10005  
Old 30.09.2015, 02:29 PM
JensonF's Avatar
JensonF JensonF is offline
MVP
 
Join Date: 03.09.2009
Posts: 6,554
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowman View Post
Oh, by the way, from tomorrow it will be illegal to smoke in your car if one of your passengers is under 18
But the police say they're not going to enforce the mandatory fine, they're just going to issue a warning for the moment.
Reply With Quote
  #10006  
Old 30.09.2015, 02:49 PM
Woolley_Man's Avatar
Woolley_Man Woolley_Man is offline
MVP
 
Join Date: 04.09.2003
Posts: 7,862
Default

It was only a few weeks ago but apparently booze is a benefit to society. It's something like 60% of the money it contributes to society is needed to treat the problems alcohol causes.

The same is probably true for smoking but there is a lot that isn't similar. It's well over 60% of the population that drink compared to 19% of the population that smokes. When you compare drinking to smoking you are comparing something embraced by the majority to something that isn't. To me the biggest of the many reasons for the ban is that the majority consider it unpleasant to be around someone who is smoking.
Reply With Quote
  #10007  
Old 30.09.2015, 02:57 PM
JensonF's Avatar
JensonF JensonF is offline
MVP
 
Join Date: 03.09.2009
Posts: 6,554
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolley_Man View Post
It was only a few weeks ago but apparently booze is a benefit to society. It's something like 60% of the money it contributes to society is needed to treat the problems alcohol causes.

The same is probably true for smoking but there is a lot that isn't similar. It's well over 60% of the population that drink compared to 19% of the population that smokes. When you compare drinking to smoking you are comparing something embraced by the majority to something that isn't. To me the biggest of the many reasons for the ban is that the majority consider it unpleasant to be around someone who is smoking.
It's not exactly trifffic to be around someone who's been boozing a lot. So on that logic, it's going to be banned.
Reply With Quote
  #10008  
Old 30.09.2015, 03:29 PM
Woolley_Man's Avatar
Woolley_Man Woolley_Man is offline
MVP
 
Join Date: 04.09.2003
Posts: 7,862
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JensonF View Post
It's not exactly trifffic to be around someone who's been boozing a lot. So on that logic, it's going to be banned.
But as I mentioned, the majority of people drink so there would be far greater opposition to a ban than there is for smoking.

Plus being drunk is the culmination of lots of drinking and that most frequently happens late in the evening. Smoking tends to be done regardless of time of day and being near someone smoking is instantly unpleasant as oppose to it being a cumulative effect over time.

Of course the big problem with your comparison is that it's already illegal to be drunk or drinking in public.
Reply With Quote
  #10009  
Old 30.09.2015, 04:59 PM
JensonF's Avatar
JensonF JensonF is offline
MVP
 
Join Date: 03.09.2009
Posts: 6,554
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolley_Man View Post
But as I mentioned, the majority of people drink so there would be far greater opposition to a ban than there is for smoking.

Plus being drunk is the culmination of lots of drinking and that most frequently happens late in the evening. Smoking tends to be done regardless of time of day and being near someone smoking is instantly unpleasant as oppose to it being a cumulative effect over time.

Of course the big problem with your comparison is that it's already illegal to be drunk or drinking in public.
And, of course, that stops it happening.
Reply With Quote
  #10010  
Old 01.10.2015, 12:42 AM
jimbobjoylove's Avatar
jimbobjoylove jimbobjoylove is offline
All Pro
 
Join Date: 02.11.2010
Posts: 3,771
Default

A few thoughts on a few things mentioned...

On ASH studies when the first ban came in, I don't dispute them but I reckon there would now be more people in favour of keeping the ban than those wanting a return, by far. A natural product of the years since the ban perhaps, and there being less smokers, but also (just a hunch) that because non-smokers previously grew up in a free-to-smoke society beforehand and didn't know no different or see it as a choice; now having been able to go to public places would prefer the current status quo.

The eroding of civil liberties stuff, freedoms etc. We're not in a free society to do as we choose, never have been, and I'm sorry but I'll never see the ban as a step towards 1984 doommonger rhetoric either. There are many other things that don't get mentioned that deserve such chatter (snoopers charter for one), whereas for public smoking bans it's a massive, massive leap.

The comparisons with alcohol, driving cars, fatty foods etc always fall short for me. All of which can be perfectly 100% safe with due care / not excessive consumption and partaking doesn't automatically inflict on others nearby. Smoking does, no matter how much due care you take in the pub or reduce consumption. This is the key difference consistently missed.

The new smoking-in-cars-with-kids law obviously does have massive blowholes in it, I guess the theory behind it is a car becomes an enclosed space. Something I've always wondered (separately) as a non-smoker driver is if holding a *** is any sort of distraction while driving? Obviously mobile phone usage is banned (rightly, and there wasn't the Orwell uproar when that came in) and I could imagine that being far more distracting than the lighting and holding a ***, while at the other end of the spectrum having a sip of water from a bottle is probably less of a distraction than smoking... so it again becomes that "where is the line?" argument.

Last edited by jimbobjoylove; 01.10.2015 at 12:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +0. The time now is 07:21 PM.