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  #11  
Old 07.10.2009, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by avengermassey View Post
Needless to say at this point the Packers look like the 6-10 team of a year ago more than the 3-1 team of the pre-season. Even with the return of Clifton I can't see the Packers making it past 8-8 this season, as far as I'm concerned they have no chance of making the playoffs with the Vikings looking set to win the division and the Bears looking pretty formidable after the early season loss to the Packers.
Such pessimism is an almost laughable overreaction IMO. Don’t get me wrong, there is cause for concern, but also cause for optimism. We have not been terrible so far by any stretch of the imagination, and we should get better.

Green Bay has 4 games against fairly terrible teams – Cleveland, Detroit twice and Tampa Bay.

The remaining 8 games are:

Minnesota
Baltimore
Pittsburgh
Chicago
Dallas
San Francisco
Seattle
Arizona

Win the first 4 and any 4 of the remaining 8 and that’s 10-6 and 90%+ probability in the playoffs. Really is that inconceivable?

The Vikings are the best bet to win the division but certainly not a team without their weaknesses and are still IMO likely to regress offensively late in the year and my God did you watch the Bears against the Lions on Sunday? Special teams aside I thought they were decidedly unimpressive. To say that either of those teams is markedly better than Green Bay (we beat one and lost by a TD to the other for Christ’s sake!) is pretty questionable.
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  #12  
Old 07.10.2009, 05:46 PM
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The Packers will be favourites in the 4 games you highlighted and probably the game against Seattle, but I can't see where another victory is going to come from. The Packers struggled to put St. Louis away until the fourth quarter, even Kyle Boller rallied the Rams against the Packers D. Moreover, considering how horrible Cutler was in the first game, the score was far too close.

Perhaps instead of these good, bad and ugly threads we should have an optimistic and pessimistic look at the Packers.

Cause for optimism:

1) Aaron Rodgers

Causes for pessimism:

1) The non-existent pass rush and poor run defense - It seems the Packers can only concentrate on one of these at a time. When they rush the passer they get gashed in the running game (Jackson, Benson), when they stack the box they get no pass rush and picked apart by opposing QBs (Minnesota, second half of the Chicago and St. Louis games.)

2) The offensive line - The Packers are relying on a 33 year old LT who's coming off two offseason surgeries, and an in-season injury to shore up a frankly atrocious offensive line. It's not just the tackles that have been the problem, Spitz has been sub-par, Sitton is giving up too many penalties and Wells keeps getting run over. Tauscher would improve the unit, but there are still many problems and he's coming off surgery himself.

3) No running game whatsoever. The 2007 season now seems like a fluke for Ryan Grant, he's broken one tackle in four games.

4) The secondary. The Packers might catch a few interceptions, but that's masking over the sub-standard play in the secondary. Bigby, although better than Martin/Smith/Rouse, still isn't the answer. Like Grant he doesn't look the same player from two years ago - I was still very critical of Bigby on these boards in 2007, he just can't run. It's perhaps too early to be musing on the decline of Al Harris and Charles Woodson but boy have they been burned a few times this season.

5) The play of the linebackers. This is, to an extent, tied in with the pass rush/run defense aspect, but I thought it was important to highlight how bad our linebackers have been. Barnett keeps getting pancaked, he looks too small to play ILB in the 3-4, Hawk is invisible and is losing time to Brandon Chillar. Aaron Kampman looks totally lost at LB, he's actually covering receivers pretty decently but he's not able to rush the passer standing up. It's too early to tell with Matthews, but the signs have been encouraging.

6) Special teams. Who's given up the most punt return yards in the NFL? That would be the Packers. Kapinos is second last in the NFC and fourth from last in the NFL in net average. Crosby is 23rd in the NFL in field goal percentage. Despite fairing well returning kickoffs, the Packers have the worst punt return average in the league.
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  #13  
Old 07.10.2009, 07:56 PM
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IMO on the form we are playing atm we look/sound like an 8-8 team.

Your last post Massey makes us out to be a very bad team and i'm suprised we've won 2 games by reading it,now i've not seen hardly any game time this year but i'm sure there must be a little bit more optimism than Aaron Rodgers.

Hey who's to say we can't improve on some of these things,we are still only 4 games into the season and its to early to write our chances off yet, its all a bit to negative for me.
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Old 07.10.2009, 08:35 PM
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Should we be concerned about the playcalling at the moment? I don't know a lot about this, but it seems as though problems that develop early in games are often continuing to be problems all the way through.

Examples from the Vikings game. On offence, Rodgers is getting hit repeatedly, and holding on to the ball too long. Should we be calling some quick release plays for a while? On defence, Favre is having a great game with loads of time to hit receivers, and yet there are very few blitzes called.

Is there a common problem here? Are the factors different in each case? Is it much more complex than I've made out? As I say this isn't an area of expertise for me(!) ... would be pleased to hear opinions.

Last edited by mister-b; 07.10.2009 at 08:38 PM.
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  #15  
Old 07.10.2009, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wozzer View Post
IMO on the form we are playing atm we look/sound like an 8-8 team.

Your last post Massey makes us out to be a very bad team and i'm suprised we've won 2 games by reading it,now i've not seen hardly any game time this year but i'm sure there must be a little bit more optimism than Aaron Rodgers.

Hey who's to say we can't improve on some of these things,we are still only 4 games into the season and its to early to write our chances off yet, its all a bit to negative for me.
Perhaps optimistic was the wrong choice of word, I was just looking for an antonym to pessimistic (which my views had been described as in an earlier post). Maybe a better way to express the first category would be players/units which have exceeded last years performance. I would only be able to place Rodgers in such a category.

I believe that if the team that played against the Vikings played for the rest of the season we'd be 7-9 at best. The return of Clifton, Tauscher and Bigby could buy the Packers one or two more wins. Regardless, I stand by my post made a page ago which stated that the Packers aren't going to make the post-season - that's predicated more on the strength of the Vikings and the Bears than it is on the Packers mediocrity.
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  #16  
Old 08.10.2009, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mister-b View Post
Should we be concerned about the playcalling at the moment? I don't know a lot about this, but it seems as though problems that develop early in games are often continuing to be problems all the way through.

Examples from the Vikings game. On offence, Rodgers is getting hit repeatedly, and holding on to the ball too long. Should we be calling some quick release plays for a while? On defence, Favre is having a great game with loads of time to hit receivers, and yet there are very few blitzes called.
I found some quotes that are relevant to my questions.

On offence, McCarthy said of Rodgers: "He had some plays that he’s gonna wish he had back. We didn’t call a lot of plays where we were (supposed to be) holding the ball. That was part of the design."

So it sounds like Rodgers is at fault to a large extent. But perhaps the plays in the playbook could be designed better, to help him with that issue?


On defence, Capers: "I would take our run statistics (against the Vikings) for every game the rest of the season ... It was so much better than what we've been ... Now, what I would like to see us do is be able to disrupt the passing game a little bit more."

I can see the benefit of going into a game with a clear strategy - e.g. we must stop the run. But when the other side is winning with their passing game, don't you need an alternative plan to fall back on?

Woodson: "Well, I think we've got a lot of tools in our bag that we're not using. For whatever that reason is, I don't know."
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  #17  
Old 10.10.2009, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
Aaron Kampman is totally wasted at OLB either the Pack put hinm back on the d/line where he can become a terror once again or they go back to the 4-3 and still put hm at end.
Yep totally 100% agree with you there!! If we dont go back to the 4-3 ive got a feeling we will loose people like Aarron Kampman.

On one of the plays i think in the 3rd or 4th quater of the vikings game [4/10/09] only the DL [all 3 of them] were rushing. Kampman and co droped back, Farve "spit" had all the time in the world, he threw a bloody bomb and they gained something like 25/30 yards!!

2 things we need to sort out:

#1 - Go back to a bloody 4-3 ASAP!!!!
#2 - Find a good HB who can break more than 1 tackle.

Rant over.
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