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  #31  
Old 21.03.2016, 03:02 PM
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On the DB front, we have apparently scheduled a visit with Vernon Hargreaves.

If we do take DB, which is very likely given how huge a need it is, would anyone have a preference to which one we took?
Picking Hargreaves at #4 is hard. He's in the conversation but will he ever become a shut down corner when he's 5'10, runs a 4.5 40 and has 30.7" arms? I actually like him, he impressed me on film and in media interviews. The biggest 'plus' for me is he creates turnovers. How many times last season did we bemoan the fact we dropped interceptions or couldn't come up with big plays? Hargreaves makes plays, even if his aggressiveness can get his fingers burnt at times. My problem is are you always going to be worried about giving up a big play? Are you going to have to shade Byron Jones to that side of the field? If we trade back 5 or 6 spots and pick up another mid round pick I'd be happy to take him then.

I'm in favour of leaving Byron Jones at FS, (like leaving Lawrence at LDE) and for that reason I'm a little lost as to how to view Ramsey. he's an athletic freak but he's a better safety than corner.

Mackensie Alexander is probably no.3 behind those 2 but he isn't in the conversation at #4. He's feisty and confident but I don't think he has the football IQ that Hargreaves has. He hasn't proven he has the hands like VHIII yet either. He's physical though and he won't give receivers a moments peace. The question is will he be there at #34?

Artie Burns at #67 in the 3rd round might be the other way to go about things. He has the height/speed teams are looking for these days and he has shown a knack for the occasional interception too.
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  #32  
Old 21.03.2016, 03:51 PM
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Picking Hargreaves at #4 is hard. He's in the conversation but will he ever become a shut down corner when he's 5'10, runs a 4.5 40 and has 30.7" arms? I actually like him, he impressed me on film and in media interviews. The biggest 'plus' for me is he creates turnovers. How many times last season did we bemoan the fact we dropped interceptions or couldn't come up with big plays? Hargreaves makes plays, even if his aggressiveness can get his fingers burnt at times. My problem is are you always going to be worried about giving up a big play? Are you going to have to shade Byron Jones to that side of the field? If we trade back 5 or 6 spots and pick up another mid round pick I'd be happy to take him then.

I'm in favour of leaving Byron Jones at FS, (like leaving Lawrence at LDE) and for that reason I'm a little lost as to how to view Ramsey. he's an athletic freak but he's a better safety than corner.

Mackensie Alexander is probably no.3 behind those 2 but he isn't in the conversation at #4. He's feisty and confident but I don't think he has the football IQ that Hargreaves has. He hasn't proven he has the hands like VHIII yet either. He's physical though and he won't give receivers a moments peace. The question is will he be there at #34?

Artie Burns at #67 in the 3rd round might be the other way to go about things. He has the height/speed teams are looking for these days and he has shown a knack for the occasional interception too.
If we are picking DB at 4 like you say it has to be either Ramsey or Hargreaves. The question is are both available?

Hargreaves would be definitely. Ramsey not so sure. Sure you'd expect Cleveland to pick a QB at 2 but if the Titans aren't going Joey Bosa at 1 then certainly think Ramsey or Tunsil would be their alternate pick.

I think if we wanted Hargreaves we could trade down to around 8 or 9. Finding a trade partner would be difficult though.

And we do need INT's. Sometimes its better to have that aggression to create the Turnover.

I like the look of Hargreaves. If we did pick him at 4 its a possible reach but one that I wouldn't mind as I feel he would improve our secondary how we require.
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  #33  
Old 21.03.2016, 04:03 PM
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If we are picking DB at 4 like you say it has to be either Ramsey or Hargreaves. The question is are both available?

Hargreaves would be definitely. Ramsey not so sure. Sure you'd expect Cleveland to pick a QB at 2 but if the Titans aren't going Joey Bosa at 1 then certainly think Ramsey or Tunsil would be their alternate pick.

I think if we wanted Hargreaves we could trade down to around 8 or 9. Finding a trade partner would be difficult though.

And we do need INT's. Sometimes its better to have that aggression to create the Turnover.

I like the look of Hargreaves. If we did pick him at 4 its a possible reach but one that I wouldn't mind as I feel he would improve our secondary how we require.
Odds are whoever Tennessee don't pick the Chargers will. Tunsil or Ramsey.

I think the depth at CB in this draft will make them lean towards another position at #4 - QB or DE. They can find 'alternatives' at DT, RB, CB through rounds 2-4 imo. When they play out a lot of scenarios I think they'll find they fall just short of the guys they want if they stay put at #34 and #67.

If you like Hargreaves at #9 or #10, then when push comes to shove I think you have to take him at #4 unless someone offers you a future 1st round pick to move back (half an eye on a QB next year instead?).
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  #34  
Old 21.03.2016, 04:22 PM
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Odds are whoever Tennessee don't pick the Chargers will. Tunsil or Ramsey.

I think the depth at CB in this draft will make them lean towards another position at #4 - QB or DE. They can find 'alternatives' at DT, RB, CB through rounds 2-4 imo. When they play out a lot of scenarios I think they'll find they fall just short of the guys they want if they stay put at #34 and #67.

If you like Hargreaves at #9 or #10, then when push comes to shove I think you have to take him at #4 unless someone offers you a future 1st round pick to move back (half an eye on a QB next year instead?).
Think the first three picks will be Ramsey, Wentz and Tunsil in no particular order.

The question is then do we take Hargreaves at 4, try to trade back and get him later or look at someone else like Bosa or Buckner.

Our need at DB is huge, so would certainly take him at 4, but other teams will have their eye on players like Joey Bosa so if we can move back to the late 10's, do it.

But pass rush is tempting. This is going to be a harder decision than I thought at 4.
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  #35  
Old 21.03.2016, 04:42 PM
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Think the first three picks will be Ramsey, Wentz and Tunsil in no particular order.

The question is then do we take Hargreaves at 4, try to trade back and get him later or look at someone else like Bosa or Buckner.

Our need at DB is huge, so would certainly take him at 4, but other teams will have their eye on players like Joey Bosa so if we can move back to the late 10's, do it.

But pass rush is tempting. This is going to be a harder decision than I thought at 4.
I think you have to look for what you can get at the top of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds, then find the best way to address your needs. What is the depth like in this draft at those positions, especially CB and DE.

It also depends on how much you like other players. What if you trade back to #10, but the following names come off the board:

Ramsey
Goff
Tunsil
Jack
Hargreaves
Elliott
Treadwell
Bosa
Wentz

Would you sooner have one of the above names or a combination of say Shaq Lawson (DE) and Kendall Fuller (CB)?

In some ways you can't really go wrong. The Cowboys have needs on every level of their Defence, and they could do with another play maker on offence too. That's before you get to the 'future of the franchise - QB' question.
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  #36  
Old 21.03.2016, 05:02 PM
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I think you have to look for what you can get at the top of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds, then find the best way to address your needs. What is the depth like in this draft at those positions, especially CB and DE.

It also depends on how much you like other players. What if you trade back to #10, but the following names come off the board:

Ramsey
Goff
Tunsil
Jack
Hargreaves
Elliott
Treadwell
Bosa
Wentz

Would you sooner have one of the above names or a combination of say Shaq Lawson (DE) and Kendall Fuller (CB)?

In some ways you can't really go wrong. The Cowboys have needs on every level of their Defence, and they could do with another play maker on offence too. That's before you get to the 'future of the franchise - QB' question.
Yeah if you trade back to 10 and they're all gone you're looking at filling these needs in the later rounds.

If I had the choice I'd stay and take one of the above. I'm not confident enough to say we'd hit in the later rounds so would take the best available at 4 and then attempt to fill needs later on.

I don't think we'll be looking at offence until Round 3. Defence is just so needy right now. Our QB of the future may have to wait until the later rounds but hey there's gotta be a Brady or a Wilson somewhere right?
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  #37  
Old 21.03.2016, 05:48 PM
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An interesting thing to keep an eye on in the coming weeks, official visits. As pointed out Hargreaves is one who is scheduled to visit. Here's 2015's official visits:

Bud Dupree DE
Randy Gregory DE
Eli Harold DE
Owamagbe Odighizuwa DE
Danielle Hunter DE
Mario Edwards DE
Frank Clark DE
Ryan Russell DE
Kevin Johnson CB
Byron Jones CB
Marcus Peters* CB
P.J. Williams CB
Jalen Collins* CB
Josh Shaw CB
Todd Gurley RB
Melvin Gordon RB
Tevin Coleman RB
T.J. Yeldon RB
Javorius Allen RB
Eric Kendricks LB
Shaq Thompson LB
Benardrick McKinney* LB
Damien Wilson LB
Gabe Martin LB
Mark Nzeocha LB
Dorial Green-Beckham WR
Devin Smith WR
Carl Davis DT
Chaz Green OT
George Farmer WR
Ian Silberman OT

The players in bold are at positions the Cowboys drafted. The players in bold AND underlined were either drafted by the Cowboys or ended up on the Cowboys roster at some stage last season.

So that's 1st (Jones) 2nd (Gregory) 3rd (Green) 4th (Wilson) 5th (Russell) and 7th (Nzeocha) round picks all visited. Their first 6 draft picks all visited.

Safe to say when you see that list of names for 2016 quite a few will end up as Cowboys!

They also had 18 Private workouts. Only 1, Lawrence Gibson ended up as a Cowboys. So read into those workouts what you will.

Last edited by RichardCunliffe; 21.03.2016 at 05:51 PM.
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  #38  
Old 21.03.2016, 10:47 PM
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Just out of interest why do so many mocks have us picking Ezekiel Elliott at 4?

Just don't think we should pick a running back that high. I know he's talented but can you really consider picking a RB at 4?
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  #39  
Old 22.03.2016, 07:49 AM
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Just out of interest why do so many mocks have us picking Ezekiel Elliott at 4?

Just don't think we should pick a running back that high. I know he's talented but can you really consider picking a RB at 4?
I just made the very same move in the 7 round mock draft that's currently running on here:

https://forum.nfluk.com/showthread.php?t=108385

For me it can make sense on several levels. Firstly he's a very good player. He runs well, he runs hard. You don't tend to see him stopped in the backfield too often, he can break tackles and he always seems to fall forward and gain that extra yard. His ball security is quite sound too, and that's always an issue in Dallas it seems. He isn't Chris Johnson as a home run hitter but 4.47 speed is nothing to be taken lightly at 225lbs, plus he was a track star in High School too.

He run blocks and pass blocks really well. Now the first part, run blocking, won't really benefit the Cowboys too much, it's not as if Romo will be running the option. However, the pass blocking is key. McFadden isn't nearly as effective a blocker as Murray was, Elliott is. Keeping Romo healthy is the aim of the game and if you have a back who is smart enough, and willing enough, to pick up blitzes then it will go someway to achieving that.

He can catch well out of the backfield too and can be effective in space. That's another safety valve for Romo if he's under pressure.

So Elliott helps the run game, helps the pass game, and helps protect Romo. Basically he affects every offensive snap when he's on the field. The Cowboys have invested in the O line so why not put the best back you can behind it? People will say you can pick up a back later in the Draft, and you can do that, but lets try to put the best back we can behind that O line and maximise all of the investments?

You've still got high 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks to find the defensive reinforcements you need. Plus, when the time comes to put a young QB under center having a do-it-all RB will help take the pressure off.

Last edited by RichardCunliffe; 22.03.2016 at 07:51 AM.
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  #40  
Old 22.03.2016, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RichardCunliffe View Post
I just made the very same move in the 7 round mock draft that's currently running on here:

https://forum.nfluk.com/showthread.php?t=108385

For me it can make sense on several levels. Firstly he's a very good player. He runs well, he runs hard. You don't tend to see him stopped in the backfield too often, he can break tackles and he always seems to fall forward and gain that extra yard. His ball security is quite sound too, and that's always an issue in Dallas it seems. He isn't Chris Johnson as a home run hitter but 4.47 speed is nothing to be taken lightly at 225lbs, plus he was a track star in High School too.

He run blocks and pass blocks really well. Now the first part, run blocking, won't really benefit the Cowboys too much, it's not as if Romo will be running the option. However, the pass blocking is key. McFadden isn't nearly as effective a blocker as Murray was, Elliott is. Keeping Romo healthy is the aim of the game and if you have a back who is smart enough, and willing enough, to pick up blitzes then it will go someway to achieving that.

He can catch well out of the backfield too and can be effective in space. That's another safety valve for Romo if he's under pressure.

So Elliott helps the run game, helps the pass game, and helps protect Romo. Basically he affects every offensive snap when he's on the field. The Cowboys have invested in the O line so why not put the best back you can behind it? People will say you can pick up a back later in the Draft, and you can do that, but lets try to put the best back we can behind that O line and maximise all of the investments?

You've still got high 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks to find the defensive reinforcements you need. Plus, when the time comes to put a young QB under center having a do-it-all RB will help take the pressure off.
You've certainly made the argument to pick him. That's for sure.

The general consensus is that you shouldn't pick a RB that early unless you know he's going to be the next AP. That running backs can easily be located in the later rounds who can do a job for your team.

That being said if Elliott can bring all that to our offense, then you could certainly justify selecting him at Round 1. As you say with Murray in our backfield our offense clicked. If we can rediscover that with Elliott then great, a bigger boost for our offence.

Maybe we'll have a new "3-headed monster". Elliott, McFadden and Morris instead of Barber, Jones and Choice.

I'd say our defence needs more assistance though. Would still lean to picking there in Round 1.
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