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  #3301  
Old 11.12.2009, 01:04 PM
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Not wanting to pay them off does seem the logical conclusion for the organisation. But the reality is every player that Angelo wastes money paying mounts up.

Are Harris or Urlacher worth the money spent on them (plenty of others too)? Will Cutler be; without an All-star cast making up for his inaccurate passes?

Bite the bullet Virginia before the situation becomes worse...
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  #3302  
Old 11.12.2009, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by payton3434 View Post
Not wanting to pay them off does seem the logical conclusion for the organisation. But the reality is every player that Angelo wastes money paying mounts up.

Are Harris or Urlacher worth the money spent on them (plenty of others too)? Will Cutler be; without an All-star cast making up for his inaccurate passes?

Bite the bullet Virginia before the situation becomes worse...
After a season like this I think it is natural to push for change and feel like something needs to happen.

However, from a practical point of view is this the right time to make a move? (I am not saying it isn't by the way but it is a question that should be answered with due consideration)

I think there are some things we should consider here:

1. We have no draft picks - so any new coaching staff has to work with the same group of players, which in turn commits us to a cover-2 scheme given our personnel. do we want any new coach to be hamstrung like that? Getting off to a bad start as a HC can damage the rest of your tenure. If this roster is bad let JA and Lovie deal with it. I cannot see hgow the team will improve enough beyond simply better coaching we don't have means of adding the talent.

2. Free Agency will be bare. Many potential free agents will become RFAs with no CBA likely to be in place. Moreover, given the dearth of options there will be greater financial competition for any marquee names and teams like Dallas and Washington can drive up the price. I don't know but can we afford to upgrade via free agency sufficiently to make the team itself competitive for whoever is coaching?

3. Ron turner is 99% gone. How much will a good OC be able to improve the offence? I am not of the mind that that the defence is too bad. Given the number of short fields, the loss of Urlacher, the fact teams dominate TOP against us I think we do pretty well on that side - not 2006-esque but not as much of a decline a people perceive, the offensive woes naturally hurt the defence.

4. We have an ageing roster, especially on D, with little opportunity to rebuild it over the coming summer. Would it be better to wait for one more year and clean house building around a core group of young players?

Basically, I think as much as everyone that Angelo needs to go but it strikes me he has little to do given the market. I don't think our second day draft picks are bad at all on the whole it's the big ones we c0ck up. I also feel like we simply have to accept that we are potentially on the brink of a massive rebuild and with no top draft picks and an unusual FA situation it could not have happened at a worse time.

I feel like we are stuck with most of the roster for now and Lovie is as good as anyone for that scheme. I don't think we can put square pegs in round holes and change the defensive style and I think the OC can help the offence.

All in all it boils down to how good you think the roster really is? I think it is sub-standard except for one or two guys. I really don't believe a new coach can right the ship without new players, which we are not in a position to acquire.

Last edited by olig23; 11.12.2009 at 03:07 PM.
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  #3303  
Old 11.12.2009, 08:46 PM
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wow olig i feel even worse after that post but yes it may take 1-2 years to get back to playoff team...just need to stick with em mate.......long road ahead i feel..
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  #3304  
Old 12.12.2009, 12:00 PM
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Angelo is the biggest obstacle to our future in my opinion.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the cover 2, it is a personnel issue. Our scheme relies on individuals to make outstanding contributions, we need 4-5 All-Pros on D; our current squad is average across the board, complimented by quality they are all decent players.

Angelo has proved incapable of getting the needed talent. Therefore I see the best way forward is to get rid of Angelo now so a GM can plan for the future.

I don't mind Smith being HC but he must be relieved of scheming. Frankly we need a smart D coach that can tune the scheme to suit what we have to work with. Smith's insistence that players just need to play better in the current scheme is ludicrous.

Every team with a good QB, rip us to shreds but Smith refuses to see why.

Offense is also hampered by Angelo just plain getting it wrong. Our O line is shambolic: no O line, no O!

After watching Brandon Marshall make Orton's under thrown long balls look on target I am very concerned he was making Cutler look good too. Obviously a good line would give him time to find someone wide open; I doubt anyone trusts Angelo to find the correct players on O either.

The CBA issues could not have come at a worse time for us.

I would be happy to see a GM/HC put in place; one person knows what they want and isn't hampered by an exec.

I think a big name in charge will be given time to build regardless of what happens next year, a rookie may not.

What I worry about under the current regime with ageing players is that we may degrade to such a point that it will take a long time of floundering at the bottom trying to plug leaks before we rise again.
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  #3305  
Old 12.12.2009, 07:02 PM
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Bears 2010...New Head Coach Bill Cowher and New GM Kevin Colbert....you heard it here first..
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  #3306  
Old 12.12.2009, 08:02 PM
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Bears 2010...New Head Coach Bill Cowher and New GM Kevin Colbert....you heard it here first..
must be all that cold fresh air mate...you having nice dreams
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  #3307  
Old 13.12.2009, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by payton3434 View Post
Angelo is the biggest obstacle to our future in my opinion.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the cover 2, it is a personnel issue. Our scheme relies on individuals to make outstanding contributions, we need 4-5 All-Pros on D; our current squad is average across the board, complimented by quality they are all decent players.

Angelo has proved incapable of getting the needed talent. Therefore I see the best way forward is to get rid of Angelo now so a GM can plan for the future.

I don't mind Smith being HC but he must be relieved of scheming. Frankly we need a smart D coach that can tune the scheme to suit what we have to work with. Smith's insistence that players just need to play better in the current scheme is ludicrous.

Every team with a good QB, rip us to shreds but Smith refuses to see why.

Offense is also hampered by Angelo just plain getting it wrong. Our O line is shambolic: no O line, no O!

After watching Brandon Marshall make Orton's under thrown long balls look on target I am very concerned he was making Cutler look good too. Obviously a good line would give him time to find someone wide open; I doubt anyone trusts Angelo to find the correct players on O either.

The CBA issues could not have come at a worse time for us.

I would be happy to see a GM/HC put in place; one person knows what they want and isn't hampered by an exec.

I think a big name in charge will be given time to build regardless of what happens next year, a rookie may not.

What I worry about under the current regime with ageing players is that we may degrade to such a point that it will take a long time of floundering at the bottom trying to plug leaks before we rise again.
On the Cutler comment I think it is a combination of factors. It isn't that I think Marshall made Cutler look better I think it is simply that all QBs need decent receivers to play to their best, they also need a certain level of blocking. I don't think you need a Walter Jones necessarily but you need a certain amount of time. The main thing that Cutler had in Denver was options. I think Marshall, Royal and Stokley are all far better options than what we have. I think Hester would be better than Stokley ut that about it. Olsen is probably better than Scheffler but since they have decent receivers Scheffler is often less covered, where Olsen gets a lot of attention in our offence. The main thing Marshall gives you is a physical prescence or a security blanket if you like. Cutler could throw a ball his way when under pressure and more often than not Marshall could use his body to fight for the ball we have nobody remotely lke that. It may not have aways been caught but it was a battle and so an incompletion not a pick.

Cowher would be dream of course but it won'y happen. It would take him a long time to geto ur roster to such a state where it could play his style of football. In fact our roster is diametrically opposed to everything he likes to do. Power running? Nope. conservative passing QB? No chance. Physically strong, downhill defence? nope.

If we do make the change this summer, and I don't think we will I think Holmgren or Shanahan are the guys best placed to work with what we have and make it work.
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  #3308  
Old 13.12.2009, 05:56 PM
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Here's what Brad Biggs of the Chicago Tribune told the Milwaukee JS about Lovie and Jerry:

Quote:
If the Bears don't finish over .500, do Lovie Smith and/or GM Jerry Angelo survive?

As disappointing as this season has been for the Bears -- everyone including them had massive expectations for this season -- Angelo would appear to be on firm ground. He's signed for four more seasons, through 2013, and was the architect of the Super Bowl XLI team. At the same time, his drafts have failed to produce in recent seasons and without first- and second-round draft picks come April, it's going to be a challenge to turn this team around. He'll get a chance.

Smith has come under fire this season and has exposed himself for further scrutiny by naming himself defensive coordinator back in January. The defense has struggled, and consequently the identity of the team has really changed. But for Smith to be removed with two seasons remaining on his contract, the McCaskeys would have to do something they've never done before. You're talking about a precedent setter if Smith is fired. With a potential work stoppage in 2011, I think it's even less likely there is a massive housecleaning. However, the evaluation process is ongoing and the Bears cannot have any more big blowouts like they've suffered of late.
I think it's a difficult one for the Bears because without the draft ammo to retool the D and sort out the OL it's going to be tough for them with both the Packers and Vikings looking to have decent squads for the next couple of years at least.

I think they are on the cusp of a major rebuilding project.

This is from a scouting report on the Bears on the Milwaukee JS site:
Quote:
"The bottom line is, the Bears don't have any playmakers," a third personnel man said. "From a talent perspective, they need to totally revamp that roster."
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  #3309  
Old 13.12.2009, 09:12 PM
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We start the game looking like a bunch of strangers every week.

A QB that throws it up just to see comes away with it.

Well done Jay you just beat out a whole lot of Bums to break a Bears interception record that stood since 1949!

WRs that can't understand option routes- yet still they are allowed to screw up every week without any scheme changes.

A coach who can p#ss timeouts up the wall, in what for me is a new one!

Nice.
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  #3310  
Old 13.12.2009, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payton3434 View Post
We start the game looking like a bunch of strangers every week.

A QB that throws it up just to see comes away with it.

Well done Jay you just beat out a whole lot of Bums to break a Bears interception record that stood since 1949!

WRs that can't understand option routes- yet still they are allowed to screw up every week without any scheme changes.

A coach who can p#ss timeouts up the wall, in what for me is a new one!

Nice.
Lovie must go, they gut is a joke and is making the Bears a laughing stock again. He took the team forward but since Superbowl XLI the team have regressed massively. I know people will blame Angelo and I would agree he should be gone too but Lovie looked like a lost lamb today.
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