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  #5121  
Old 11.07.2014, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PavlovsDog View Post
Just because you have only seen him in 3 games doesn't mean that a professional club with an extensive scouting network have only seen the same.
Yeah - it's one thing getting a cheap transfer in off the back of the WC, but people would be fools to believe we're spending 12m based purely on WC games.

I'd be amazed if it was that high a fee anyway, Mexican clubs aren't skint so can charge good money but I really don't think G&S would sanction that outlay for such a player.

The reality is that clubs know about these players to a large degree, but use the WC as a minor quick test with a pinch of salt to see if they impress outside their domestic league. Winston Reid has turned out to be a great signing for 4m, Pablo Barrera not so much.
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  #5122  
Old 11.07.2014, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by leebladedawg View Post
lol your asking for evidence to prove something yet your providing nothing yourself, its a baseless argument, no sorry its an argument based on blind faith and a personal view, you want to give cruyff, and rightly so, credit for one single run and little else in a final yet you then dismiss any single thing that messi has done

as i have constantly said throughout he is the best i have seen and that's it, you can have whatever view you want but as others have said including myself you are judging entirely different generations and different eras, Pele didn't face organised technically and physically better teams than what Messi has had to etc
Well you see, I wasn't really asking for 'evidence'. I was simply re-phrasing a question I asked in a previous post. A question you ignored and have done so again. I was asking you to name one single defensive player in todays game that displays defensive skills like any of the highly regarded players of the past. You want names? OK, ooh I don't know, say - Bobby Moore, Franz Beckenbauer, Carlos Alberto Torres, Nilton or Djalma Santos, or even Franco Baresi.

My view of Cruyff is not based on one run. You are just being ridiculous now. I mentioned the penalty run as you had stated that Cruyff was 'completely shut out' of the '74 final. I presented a piece of evidence to show this was not the case. I am not dismissing everything that Messi has done. Please pay attention. I have clearly and repeatedly stated that he has not dominated and controlled games on the big stage, he has not stood out for sustained periods in any game of this WC (or any for that matter).

Yes, you have said Messi is the best you've seen. I have simply been saying he is not the best I've seen. My opinion and that's it too.

Further I have simply said, he (as yet) does not belong in the same bracket as those others I've mentioned. It's quite simple - until he shows he does consistently on the WC stage surrounded by his contemporaries - he simply doesn't. This is not comparing different eras, it's asking him to show something in his own.

You just can't resist ending on this tired old players are technically and physically better rubbish again can you.
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  #5123  
Old 11.07.2014, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PavlovsDog View Post
Just because you have only seen him in 3 games doesn't mean that a professional club with an extensive scouting network have only seen the same.
This is a myth scouting networks spread throughout the world. A lot of players are recommended to clubs via agents and representatives of clubs who want to make a fortune on the player. The true value of enner valencia is probably around a couple of million. He has had one season at pachuca after a 1.4m move from his previous club.
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  #5124  
Old 11.07.2014, 04:11 PM
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Just had a pizza flyer posted through the door with a very
helpful world cup fixture chart, complete with a very optimistic
"come on england" graphic.

I accept that it would be a waste to chuck them all out but it
did give me a laugh
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  #5125  
Old 11.07.2014, 10:46 PM
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http://www.espnfc.us/team/germany/48...p-lahms-genius

Nice little article on Phillipe Lahm. I know he isn't necessarily underrated, as most rate him as one of the best fullbacks in the game, however, I do think he is underrated when taking into account players from all positions.

The article is right, he is without doubt one of the best players on the planet, not just fullbacks, simply one of the best footballers. For a number of years I have always thought to myself he would be one of, if not the first name on my team sheet if I had free choice of any player in the world.

Hopefully he can lift the trophy come Sunday.
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  #5126  
Old 12.07.2014, 12:01 AM
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Could the World Cup Champion Beat the Best Club Team in the World?

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...-in-the-world/
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  #5127  
Old 12.07.2014, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smograider View Post
Messi is the sole reason they reached the Semi? I think not. You must be watching different games. The standard in the champs league is higher than a world tournament? Again, I don't think so. You can't prove yourself to be world class, if you don't prove it on the world stage. It's that simple. Messi is yet to do so. That is undeniable.

If the standard is higher in the Champs league - he should be lights out in the WC shouldn't he? If as you claim, he is playing against inferior opposition. You are tripped up by your own logic. He can't possibly look good against superior opposition and yet look garbage against weaker. It's illogical, hence, clearly wrong.

Do you think I've not seen the 74 WC final? I watched it at the time and many times since. I will ask again - who was it that won the penalty for the Netherlands? Cruyff did not dissappear the way Messi did. Messi did absolutely nothing, nada. You don't buy the foul thing on Diego? Funny, you bought it last night. That final is widely regarded as the most cynical final in history.

Nobody, and I mean Nobody, is kicked from pillar to post in the modern game. It just doesn't happen, fouls are given these days that would never have been years ago. To claim otherwise is frankly deluded.

You are now claiming Messi was man marked, yet earlier you claimed man marking was not a feature of the modern advanced game - you claimed it was a feature of the old unevolved game. Diego was subdued in that final due to the man marking of Matthaus yes. In the rest of the tournament he shone like a beacon though. Messi has not even shone like a lighted fart, in any game. If he can make runs like Maradona or Cruyff - why doesn't he, ever? Is he playing scared? Does he have no individuality? Does he have no courage? Or is he nothing but a yes man? Whichever it is - it still makes him less of a player. He has been boring to watch. I will make a bet that he does sod all in the final either.

This view you keep expressing about inferior opposition, is pure conjecture. It's baseless opinion, it's just what you want to believe. Where is the evidence? Where are the well regarded and widely held to be world class defenders in todays game? Are you claiming the quality of defending and defensive midfield play in this tournament has been high? Where are these wonderfully advanced tactics you claim? It's a simple game, you are buying into coaches and pundits nonsense to justify there own position. As for the improved fitness, I addressed this earlier, it's rubbish. You and many others are blinded by machines that go 'ping'.

You don't have a point - you have nothing but blind faith.


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  #5128  
Old 12.07.2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gengar View Post


A fine riposte good sir.
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  #5129  
Old 12.07.2014, 09:09 AM
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I cant see/access to any of those images so im going to take the mature school yard attitude of im always right and everyone else is always wrong, it works for me every time
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  #5130  
Old 12.07.2014, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by leebladedawg View Post
I cant see/access to any of those images so im going to take the mature school yard attitude of im always right and everyone else is always wrong, it works for me every time
Except when you disagree with me of course.
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