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  #5311  
Old 14.07.2014, 09:00 PM
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RichardCunliffe RichardCunliffe is offline
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Originally Posted by leebladedawg View Post
Messi created more chances in this world cup than anyone else and scored only two less than the golden boot, this is apparently why he won the player of the tournament
According to FIFA:

Messi: 4 goals, 1 assist, 45.5% attempts on target, 26 deliveries into the box, 34 solo runs into the box.

Robben: 3 goals, 1 assist, 95% attempts on target, 19 deliveries into the box, 38 solo runs into the box.

Muller: 5 goals, 3 assists, 62.5% attempts on target, 12 deliveries into the box, 9 solo runs into the box.

I'm sorry, but there is no way Messi made 4 times as many runs into the box than Muller, whilst making twice as many crosses as him as well. The only way the 'deliveries' is true is if you count free kicks and corners, in which case its stats making things into a farce again.
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  #5312  
Old 14.07.2014, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Smograider View Post
I never said it was the sole barometer.
Pretend otherwise but in all those posts you suggested multiple times that it's the difference maker. Shall we move on?

---

Thoughts on the ideal commentary/punditry teams? Overall I still can't abide any of the in-game commentary, I can't think of one combo that doesn't grate. Post-game/half-time etc, Rio, O'Neill and Henry impressed the most, while Lineker over Chiles in a heartbeat. Cannavaro was a bit dull, though it was funny when asked about Lambert and he clearly didn't know who he was when starting to talk about Rooney...

Meanwhile Kramer doesn't remember any of the first half, not entirely surprisingly. A quick count but in the 64 games various sites cite three knockouts/concussions, which is much higher than I expected. I wonder if that rate is an anomaly or if it does happen at the same rate in domestic football, but just doesn't get picked up on.
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  #5313  
Old 14.07.2014, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jimbobjoylove View Post
Pretend otherwise but in all those posts you suggested multiple times that it's the difference maker. Shall we move on?
Nope. I said it's the difference between great or very good players in their era and those that can be considered as contenders in the highest echelon - GOAT. That Mesi does not belong in this discussion yet. Shall we move on?

Edit: Given the WC is now over, I think we should. By all means we can resume in 4 years time and see if Messi shows up.

Last edited by Smograider; 14.07.2014 at 09:40 PM.
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  #5314  
Old 14.07.2014, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Smograider View Post
Nope. I said it's the difference between great or very good players in their era and those that can be considered as contenders in the highest echelon - GOAT. That Mesi does not belong in this discussion yet. Shall we move on?
Which is exactly what I said in an attempt to tie it up. I'm no longer playing this kids "what?" game...
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  #5315  
Old 14.07.2014, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jimbobjoylove View Post
Which is exactly what I said in an attempt to tie it up. I'm no longer playing this kids "what?" game...
No, that doesn't make the WC the sole criteria - it makes it the final criteria placed on top of, or taken together with the others. It's not a kids what game - it's called English, with words that have definitions.
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  #5316  
Old 14.07.2014, 10:42 PM
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So apparently Manuel Neuer completed more passes than Messi in the WC
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  #5317  
Old 14.07.2014, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by falcon_91 View Post
So apparently Manuel Neuer completed more passes than Messi in the WC


I find it funny when Opta-style stats are used in singularity, when often the 'best' passers are those with high % completions - with centrebacks, keepers and DMs often the most high scoring. It's the same with NFL stats too, arguments over passing yards used without consideration of drops or the ability of the receiver to pull it in. Stats are fun, but nothing beats the eye.
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  #5318  
Old 15.07.2014, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by leebladedawg View Post
Messi created more chances in this world cup than anyone else and scored only two less than the golden boot, this is apparently why he won the player of the tournament
That and it being adidas' award.

Should've gone to Mascherano or Rodriguez.

ETA: who scored.com who use a computer rating system also had him ranked top I think.






Last edited by Gengar; 15.07.2014 at 01:39 AM.
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  #5319  
Old 15.07.2014, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCunliffe View Post
According to FIFA:

Messi: 4 goals, 1 assist, 45.5% attempts on target, 26 deliveries into the box, 34 solo runs into the box.

Robben: 3 goals, 1 assist, 95% attempts on target, 19 deliveries into the box, 38 solo runs into the box.

Muller: 5 goals, 3 assists, 62.5% attempts on target, 12 deliveries into the box, 9 solo runs into the box.

I'm sorry, but there is no way Messi made 4 times as many runs into the box than Muller, whilst making twice as many crosses as him as well. The only way the 'deliveries' is true is if you count free kicks and corners, in which case its stats making things into a farce again.
Well thats the problem with stats isnt it, i mean nearly everyone has Rodriguez as having a better tournament than Messi but reality is he had a pee easy group, then Uruguay without Suraez and then he he had limited effect against Brazil plus he didnt have two or 3 players on him every time he picked the ball up and he only scored 2 more goals than Messi
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  #5320  
Old 15.07.2014, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Gengar View Post
That and it being adidas' award.

Should've gone to Mascherano or Rodriguez.

ETA: who scored.com who use a computer rating system also had him ranked top I think.
That tells you everything you need to know. 8.28 against Holland??? He was rubbish, actually rubbish. 1.28 more like it.

I trust what I see. He was not the best player in tournament.

The best player (attacking anyway) in the tournament was Robben. People may not like his antics, and he struggled to get involved at times in the semi-final, but he was the most dangerous attacking player I saw, and it really was not close.

It seems Mascherano has become England's Pirlo of 2012. We do love to get on a good bandwagon.
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