Woody Johnson (Jets Owner) feels it's unlikely Darrelle Revis will play in 2010 - Page 2 - NFL UK Forums
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  #11  
Old 10.08.2010, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by transmetropolitan View Post
1. I’ve covered it elsewhere, and it’s from FOA originally, but basically it’s because the Jets have enjoyed a freakish (almost unprecedented) run of good luck with O-line injuries, for which there is no year-to-year correlation (i.e. it’s luck not skill). If they regress to the mean and have average injury luck on the OL, then it’s reasonable to predict regression for the running game. The New York Giants experienced a similar run in the middle of the decade, and have since regressed. The Jets were unlucky to finish 9-7 last year, they ought to have been a 10 or possibly 11 win team most likely. But then they had an extremely lucky run in the postseason. To say they were deserved contenders based on the entirety of last season is inaccurate. They were better than their 9-7 record indicated, but not deserving SB contenders.

2. Reports? You mean rumours on a messageboard? I’ve not seen any credible reports thus far, if you have other information… On the other point, you seem to infer the reason the Broncos/Raiders have failed to win is that they’re paying their best cornerbacks too much money? That argument has no credibility whatsoever. It’s management spin and you are gullible if you buy it. As for whatever other players are waiting for contracts, the Jets have completely misplayed the situation by entertaining giving him a new contract. They opened that can of worms. All they needed to do was refuse to discuss it at the present time, point out the discrepancy in leverage when the player raised it regarding Asomugha. If you publicly open the door to negotiations, it’s tricky to then try and claim you retain all the leverage. You can’t have it both ways. Revis might know how good he is, but in terms of negotiating with the team, Ryan’s soundbites are all the exhibits he needs. It isn’t about the value he places on himself, it’s about the value his coach (and thereby the team) places on him. That’s not hysterical, it’s an important distinction.

3. You are correct as Revis is under contract. The rule I cited refers to unsigned players like the San Diego players. Revis still has the franchise by the balls as he is key to the success of the team, which levers heavily on the success of the business and the careers of Tannenbaum, Ryan etc. If they show capable of winning without him, yes, that burden lifts. As for the ‘we can wreck his career’ stuff… if you think the Jets honestly are going to do that… the collateral damage in the Jets locker room, to attracting free agents in the future… the whole reputation of the franchise, advertising revenue, corporate links etc. It isn’t anywhere near as simple as you are insinuating. Such a move would have grave ramifications for the business and for the NFL’s antitrust exemption even. There’s simply no way this would come to pass. It would hurt the Jets way more than the player holding out, to be so aggressive would simply not be in their interests overall.

4. The player is being greedy? Hmmm. Again you grossly oversimplify. Look at Leon Washington. The team can and will terminate your contract or ask you to renegotiate whenever your value diminishes. The players have a limited window in which to provide for themselves for the rest of their lives. It’s a rough business and I think as a player you’ve got to get what you can, while you can, when you can. You never know when the rainy day is going to arrive. You seem to expect loyalty from the player to the team – but this loyalty simply does not exist in the other direction, so that’s a wholly unrealistic expectation. You are criticising the player for making a business decision in his own interests but you’ll give the team a pass for making several business decisions on players in their interests year after year. There’s two sides to this coin.

And yes, I do think he’s going to win. The team wants to win now, it is imperative to the needs of the business. Sure, there will be concessions made as there always are, but ultimately I think the player is in a stronger position overall.
1. Dude, they are SB contenders. Don't take it up with me, take it out with the bookies. They are in the top 5 or 6 teams for a reason. I could have this debate all day, but not here. Take it to the Jets thread.

2. I never once implied that about the Bronco's/Raiders, but it hasn't proven successful either, so you're point has no more credibility than mine. I'm talking about a contract that prevents a team being competitive. You have no idea how Nnamdi's contracts will affect those teams. What I do is that Revis' contract is going to mean we lose a few guys who I don't think we can afford to lose.

The Jets "entertained" giving him a new contract? Not before Revis' demands were obvious. If you genuinely believe the Jets "opened this can of worms" then you are insane. We made him an offer but he was already demanding more. This situaton was always going to come up eventually.

And again, you're really overemphasizing what Ryan's opinion means in contract negotiations. The numbers are there, he is what he is for all to see.

3. He is not the key to the success of the team, because he would dismantle a lot of the current team with his contract. If anything, it's the other way around. And btw, don't think for one second Revis wouldn't come crawling back to us a year or two into exile when he realizes his own career is going to the crapper. And the players would turn on us? Are you kidding me? Look at Nick Mangold, he has one hundred times more reason to hold out than Revis yet he's THERE helping Ducasse and Slauson adjust to the new line. Why? Because he's a good teammate and he wants to win - That is what the players will respect. You think they'll care that we cave to Revis? Seriously? The diva that's sitting at home while they kill themselves. Get real. If anything the reverse will prove true. I want to see us reward Mangold's loyalty and make sure to empasize the difference between a team player and a diva.

The team wants to win now, but they want to win after that too. We already have Wilson, who is a top prospect at CB. He'll not be Revis, but he could be pretty good. Ryan haas always had elite defenses, wherever he goes and if Sanchez progresses to the point where he's even league average our offense becomes scary. We can compete without Revis, he can't without us.

4. What the hell are you talking about here? Revis signed the effing contract, the one he held out of TC in his rookie year to get and now he's turning around and saying that's not good enough with another three years left? We're staying loyal to that contract, Revis is not.

It amazes me that you think Revis is in a better position - NO MATTER WHAT the Jets as a franchise, as a team will exist after this boils over. We'll carry on building an already decent unit (even without Revis) and we'll carry on trying to win championships. There was a life before Revis and there will be life after Revis. As for him he NEEDS us because we own his right for a long, long time. We dictate how his career pans out if he's willing to turn his back on the organisation, then we turn our back on him and his potentially great career will wither away into irrelevance.
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  #12  
Old 10.08.2010, 01:07 PM
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I think the Jets should have a serious think about trading him... Yes he is their best CB, and maybe the best in the league, but the contract he is asking for is crazy and will kill them when the cap comes back.... Also they have depth at the position and it won't exactly turn into a position of weakness within the team.

The main 2 questions that would have to be asked would be:
1) What would they get for him in regards draft picks or players.... Or a mixture of both and....
2) Would a team trade for him knowing his demands...

If i was a Jets fan and he got traded and we had value, i certainly wouldn't shed any tears.
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  #13  
Old 10.08.2010, 01:21 PM
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I think the Jets should have a serious think about trading him... Yes he is their best CB, and maybe the best in the league, but the contract he is asking for is crazy and will kill them when the cap comes back.... Also they have depth at the position and it won't exactly turn into a position of weakness within the team.

The main 2 questions that would have to be asked would be:
1) What would they get for him in regards draft picks or players.... Or a mixture of both and....
2) Would a team trade for him knowing his demands...

If i was a Jets fan and he got traded and we had value, i certainly wouldn't shed any tears.
It's a good point and it's certainly an option, although the spiteful side of me wants to see us call his bluff. He would inevitably have to re-sign, probably for much lower money, that would be the best part. It would probably take a long time for an agreement to come though, especially with the obvious bitterness that must be growing between the sides.

It would be tough to get a trade partner. The Jets value Revis as the best in the league, that doesn't mean they should pay him as such. He's under contract and thus not in position to make the demands he's making. Also, I wouldn't be too keen on high first round picks, with the current draft setup we'd probably end up giving what Revis wanted to a completely unproven player/s. Needless to say that would be retarded, so yeah it will be very difficult to resolve with a trade but I know Tanny will explore every option available.
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Old 10.08.2010, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacks Jets View Post
It's a good point and it's certainly an option, although the spiteful side of me wants to see us call his bluff. He would inevitably have to re-sign, probably for much lower money, that would be the best part. It would probably take a long time for an agreement to come though, especially with the obvious bitterness that must be growing between the sides.

It would be tough to get a trade partner. The Jets value Revis as the best in the league, that doesn't mean they should pay him as such. He's under contract and thus not in position to make the demands he's making. Also, I wouldn't be too keen on high first round picks, with the current draft setup we'd probably end up giving what Revis wanted to a completely unproven player/s. Needless to say that would be retarded, so yeah it will be very difficult to resolve with a trade but I know Tanny will explore every option available.
As we have seen, teams are reluctant to give up a high draft pick, AND a massive salary. Its one or the other.
Which is why Boldin went for a 3rd basically, and probably why the Ravens didnt get any bites on Gaither.

To all intents and purposes teams should be happy to give up a first and third for Revis. But in today's cagey, post Roy Williams madness, NFL. The Jets may find it hard to get anywhere near Revis' true worth. Which is why I wouldnt think a trade has much chance of happening.
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Old 10.08.2010, 02:36 PM
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I’m not saying they have a 0% chance of going to the SB. Last time I looked they were 25/1. In the AFC this puts them clearly behind the Colts, Ravens, Pats, Steelers and Chargers, on the same level as the Titans and Bengals. Like I said, a good team, not a genuine SB contender.

It’s proven year in and year out in the NFL that talent is a rarer commodity than either cap space or cash. Show me the great team that has been truly crippled by the cap in the past 10 years? Simply does not exist. Most of the successful teams in the NFL in the past decade, the Steelers, Pats, Colts and Eagles, have been under the cap for years. The notion that you have in your head, that there’s no way the Jets can afford to keep this team together… not true. It’s the sort of thing management spins players to try to get them to take less than market value. It isn’t true because there’s always plenty of cash around for mid level players in FA. Like the contract the Jets themselves gave Faneca.

There might be the odd player they can’t afford to resign, but it isn’t true that you’re going to lose all of Mangold, Harris, Holmes and Edwards because of Revis. In any case, right off the bat you don’t want to resign both Edwards and Holmes because they are so similar. Frankly I wouldn’t be falling over myself to resign either in a hurry. You don’t know what will happen to the cap post next CBA, but if they go to 18 game seasons then likely it goes up. The only teams the cap has hit in the past (and it’s going back to 2004ish) are older teams who were done anyway – the Packers and Titans from that time. Since then, everyone has been able to manage the cap so it’s not a problem in building a side. There’s no reason to think things are different now, other that the uncertainty surrounding next season means the owners are not wanting to be handing out big cheques (i.e. giving the player a nice strike fund at a time when the team’s revenue is threatened).

As for comparing Revis and Mangold… they have their own ways of dealing with business situations. If Mangold suffers a Leon Washington style injury in camp, and his career is permanently affected by that injury, are the Jets going to give him a prime market value deal next year because they owe it to him as a player? Not a chance in hell. That he wants to turn up and play – that’s up to him. He’s the one who will have to live the rest of his life with that decision if it goes **** up. Maybe it will work out better for him… you don’t know, but it’s an individual decision. My point is you cannot blinker yourself here to the broader picture. You cannot criticise Revis for doing this to the team because the team does it to players every single year when the boot is on the other foot. Loyalty is a two way street and so is disloyalty. You are so naive and one-eyed in your view of this it’s not true. Go and ask Leon Washington about the loyalty the Jets showed him (or Chris Baker, or Lavernues Coles etc).

It’s not about Revis being a “diva”. It’s about him getting what he can (what his level of play deserves) while the getting is good. Ultimately the contract Revis got was based on his draft slot, not his ability as a player. What realistic alternative did he have to signing that contract? And now he’s comprehensively outperformed that contract. The player is entitled to holdout, and the team is fining his accordingly.

Finally, you Jets fans crack me up. You all cried like babies when Revis didn’t win DPOY, suddenly when he’s asking to be paid like the DPOY should be paid you turn on him in hilarious style and claim he’s not that important anyway! You’re so fickle it’s ridiculous…
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Old 10.08.2010, 02:38 PM
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As we have seen, teams are reluctant to give up a high draft pick, AND a massive salary. Its one or the other.
Which is why Boldin went for a 3rd basically, and probably why the Ravens didnt get any bites on Gaither.

To all intents and purposes teams should be happy to give up a first and third for Revis. But in today's cagey, post Roy Williams madness, NFL. The Jets may find it hard to get anywhere near Revis' true worth. Which is why I wouldnt think a trade has much chance of happening.
I'm not expecting a trade, but I think Revis is an exception. He's young and possibly already the best in the league - I can't remember a recent trade involving a talent like Revis, he should be the kind of guy that you never let go once you have on board. What he done last season was simply incredible, people can say it was overstated. It wasn't, he really was as good as they say.
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Old 10.08.2010, 02:41 PM
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I’m not saying they have a 0% chance of going to the SB. Last time I looked they were 25/1. In the AFC this puts them clearly behind the Colts, Ravens, Pats, Steelers and Chargers, on the same level as the Titans and Bengals. Like I said, a good team, not a genuine SB contender.

It’s proven year in and year out in the NFL that talent is a rarer commodity than either cap space or cash. Show me the great team that has been truly crippled by the cap in the past 10 years? Simply does not exist. Most of the successful teams in the NFL in the past decade, the Steelers, Pats, Colts and Eagles, have been under the cap for years. The notion that you have in your head, that there’s no way the Jets can afford to keep this team together… not true. It’s the sort of thing management spins players to try to get them to take less than market value. It isn’t true because there’s always plenty of cash around for mid level players in FA. Like the contract the Jets themselves gave Faneca.

There might be the odd player they can’t afford to resign, but it isn’t true that you’re going to lose all of Mangold, Harris, Holmes and Edwards because of Revis. In any case, right off the bat you don’t want to resign both Edwards and Holmes because they are so similar. Frankly I wouldn’t be falling over myself to resign either in a hurry. You don’t know what will happen to the cap post next CBA, but if they go to 18 game seasons then likely it goes up. The only teams the cap has hit in the past (and it’s going back to 2004ish) are older teams who were done anyway – the Packers and Titans from that time. Since then, everyone has been able to manage the cap so it’s not a problem in building a side. There’s no reason to think things are different now, other that the uncertainty surrounding next season means the owners are not wanting to be handing out big cheques (i.e. giving the player a nice strike fund at a time when the team’s revenue is threatened).

As for comparing Revis and Mangold… they have their own ways of dealing with business situations. If Mangold suffers a Leon Washington style injury in camp, and his career is permanently affected by that injury, are the Jets going to give him a prime market value deal next year because they owe it to him as a player? Not a chance in hell. That he wants to turn up and play – that’s up to him. He’s the one who will have to live the rest of his life with that decision if it goes **** up. Maybe it will work out better for him… you don’t know, but it’s an individual decision. My point is you cannot blinker yourself here to the broader picture. You cannot criticise Revis for doing this to the team because the team does it to players every single year when the boot is on the other foot. Loyalty is a two way street and so is disloyalty. You are so naive and one-eyed in your view of this it’s not true. Go and ask Leon Washington about the loyalty the Jets showed him (or Chris Baker, or Lavernues Coles etc).

It’s not about Revis being a “diva”. It’s about him getting what he can (what his level of play deserves) while the getting is good. Ultimately the contract Revis got was based on his draft slot, not his ability as a player. What realistic alternative did he have to signing that contract? And now he’s comprehensively outperformed that contract. The player is entitled to holdout, and the team is fining his accordingly.

Finally, you Jets fans crack me up. You all cried like babies when Revis didn’t win DPOY, suddenly when he’s asking to be paid like the DPOY should be paid you turn on him in hilarious style and claim he’s not that important anyway! You’re so fickle it’s ridiculous…
They're 12-1 right now and were 10-1 at one point. BTW, I can't fully reply to this post right now but that bit at the end - He was robbed of the award. He's the best DB in football! Find ANYWHERE in this threa where I questioned his ability. Where did I say he's not important? You're making things up to fit an argument, quite pathetic really.
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Old 10.08.2010, 03:12 PM
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revis needs to stop being an idiot and get his ass in camp. you wont get what you want by staging a season long hold out, he just looks like a spoiled brat. i mean, look at michael jordan, he had a contract he thought was extremely undervalued, but he played and he trusted ownership would repay his faith in them, and they paid him. He got big contracts because he earned them over years, not just one hyped season.

revis's demanded figure also sounds pretty immense too, i mean, there is no way in hell you can justify paying revis more money than a top 5 QB at $16 mil a year, but thats exactly what he wants. he doesnt seem to understand corner just isnt as valuable a position and now he just comes out looking like a pompous, self centered asshole. he sees his teammates are looking for new deals but they came in and play, because its not all about the money, which darrelle doesnt seems to realise.
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Old 10.08.2010, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Clint Session! View Post
revis needs to stop being an idiot and get his ass in camp. you wont get what you want by staging a season long hold out, he just looks like a spoiled brat. i mean, look at michael jordan, he had a contract he thought was extremely undervalued, but he played and he trusted ownership would repay his faith in them, and they paid him. He got big contracts because he earned them over years, not just one hyped season.

revis's demanded figure also sounds pretty immense too, i mean, there is no way in hell you can justify paying revis more money than a top 5 QB at $16 mil a year, but thats exactly what he wants. he doesnt seem to understand corner just isnt as valuable a position and now he just comes out looking like a pompous, self centered asshole. he sees his teammates are looking for new deals but they came in and play, because its not all about the money, which darrelle doesnt seems to realise.
Comparing to the NBA - where there is significantly less risk of career ending or limiting injury and where average careers are longer - is flawed.

Why can you not pay a CB $16m per year? If he is, as some people have suggested, better than Asomugha, and Asomugha earns $15.1m per year, I don't get why something in that ballpark is a problem? One the one hand some people are saying it's ridiculous that he wasn't DPOY, on the other those same peoiple are saying his contract demands are ridiculous...

He sees teammates reporting rather than holding out... and that is their situation and their decision. It doesn't rule his or necesarrily apply to his. He also saw Leon Washington come in last season when he was looking for a new contract, suffer a career limiting injury and get offered a $1.7m tender rather than becoming a UFA as he ought to have been, than get traded to the Seahawks when it suited the Jets.

What I don't understand is why people can't see that teams do this to players ALL THE TIME. There is no loyalty, it's purely business. The moment your value diminishes to the team, they cut you or renegotiate your deal. Revis' holdout is the same - it's purely business.

It's up to the player to decide - on an individual basis - their situation, their leverage, their body, their contract, their choice. So I disagree saying that 'it's not all about money'. One because I don't think it's that simple and two becuse it's up to the player to decide.
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Old 10.08.2010, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacks Jets View Post
They're 12-1 right now and were 10-1 at one point. BTW, I can't fully reply to this post right now but that bit at the end - He was robbed of the award. He's the best DB in football! Find ANYWHERE in this threa where I questioned his ability. Where did I say he's not important? You're making things up to fit an argument, quite pathetic really.
You said in your previous post you would contend without him, Ryan has always had elite defences, and most tellingly 'He is not key to the success of our team'.

Riiiiiight.

So he's easily the best defensive player in the league (he must be otherwise he'd be unlucky not to have won and not 'robbed'), yet he's not key to the success of your team?

We might well find out just how key he is to the success of the Jets.
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