Woody Johnson (Jets Owner) feels it's unlikely Darrelle Revis will play in 2010 - Page 3 - NFL UK Forums
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  #21  
Old 10.08.2010, 04:02 PM
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revis should stop asking for more money and prove to the jets that he should be paid, one year doesnt make you the best, (he was the best though last year)

its a little like the anquan boldin situation, as boldin threw his dolly out the pram, when a) The Cardinals needed to resign warner, (who gets the ball to him) and b. Larry fitzgerald was a free agent or close to a free agent year, (which incidentially takes pressure off boldin)

in revis sit, he needs to realise that a) mangold wants paying and is at an important position, o-line, which keeps the offence moving and puts pressure on qb's to go passing to catch up, b) he has money, and plenty of time, he wants 16 million now, does he not possess an imagination, lets say he matches or betters last years performance, suddenly he is worth a lot more,

stupid, stupid boy.
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  #22  
Old 10.08.2010, 04:05 PM
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I'm starting to wonder what the Jets have ever done to transmetropolitan.You can't get a jets thread without him telling us all how bad the jets were last year and how bad they will be this year.The jets can't do anything right according to him.

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Originally Posted by transmetropolitan View Post

2. You don’t know exactly what he’s asking for, but that aside, so called ‘Asomugha money’ would not cripple the franchise, or the team’s future. That’s management spin. The Raiders can afford to pay Asomugha $15.1m, the Broncos can afford to have Champ Bailey on the roster with a cap number of $15.4m and the Jets, in the biggest market in America cannot afford to pay someone they insist is a better player this kind of money? Pull the other one.
Neither the Raiders or the Broncos were trying to sign 3 other young talented players who were the cornerstone of their franchise.And in the raiders case,they have no one worth giving big money too.They could of given Aso 3/4 of their cap and they wouldn't be much worse.

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Originally Posted by transmetropolitan View Post
There are 2 issues here as I understand it. One is overall compensation level, the other is method of payment. On the first, the Jets have only themselves to blame for the situation. Look at fat motormouth head coach. He’s called the player the best player he’s ever coached, best CB in the league. So when they’re talking new contract, it’s reasonable for the player to be paid commensurate to such praise, no? On this front the team have handed the player all the leverage he needs and have only themselves to blame. No mistake, the Jets have not played a smart hand on this front.
Ryan is not the only person to state that how good Revis is.And the biggest problem to this isn't Ryan but the crazy contract the Raiders gave to Aso.The jets don't want to use that contract as a starting point but Revis does.


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4. Jeez, you Jets fans have short memories. Have you not forgotten Revis’ holdout as a rookie? The team blinked first on that occasion, big time.
Disagree,The jets wanted and got Revis on a 6 year deal.It took a bit more money and the funky buy out but they got what they wanted in the end.

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Originally Posted by transmetropolitan View Post
Revis still has the franchise by the balls as he is key to the success of the team, which levers heavily on the success of the business and the careers of Tannenbaum, Ryan etc. If they show capable of winning without him, yes, that burden lifts. As for the ‘we can wreck his career’ stuff… if you think the Jets honestly are going to do that… the collateral damage in the Jets locker room, to attracting free agents in the future… the whole reputation of the franchise, advertising revenue, corporate links etc. It isn’t anywhere near as simple as you are insinuating. Such a move would have grave ramifications for the business and for the NFL’s antitrust exemption even. There’s simply no way this would come to pass. It would hurt the Jets way more than the player holding out, to be so aggressive would simply not be in their interests overall.
That's crazy,the jets are hardly being aggressive by not paying a player 15 million a year.Revis is already under contract,he's not getting much this year but he's getting a lot in the last two years of his contract.The jets aren't going to get a bad rep because a player under contract is too stuborn to play while trying to negotiate a new contract.
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  #23  
Old 10.08.2010, 04:07 PM
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the jets have lots of players to resign after this season and 16million for one player would count one hell of alot towards the salary cap.
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  #24  
Old 10.08.2010, 04:13 PM
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I'm starting to think we should move forward without Revis.He's the best at his position but his position is corner back.He can only do so much and if I'm honest,an improved pass rush removes the need to have a player of Revis' calibre.

We're in not bad shape as it stands without Revis.Cromartie seems to be having a great camp and we invested in Wilson.Dwight Lowrey is a solid player too.

Right now I'd prefer to pay Mangold and Harris,they've turned up to camp and should be easier deals to do.There are guys like Brad Smith and possibly Brodney Pool who I'd also like to see here next year.
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  #25  
Old 10.08.2010, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by transmetropolitan View Post
I’m not saying they have a 0% chance of going to the SB. Last time I looked they were 25/1. In the AFC this puts them clearly behind the Colts, Ravens, Pats, Steelers and Chargers, on the same level as the Titans and Bengals. Like I said, a good team, not a genuine SB contender.
Okay, forget about any of this, or the fact that we have been a trendy SB pick, because what you or any of the experts think means nothing. All that matters is that THE JETS team fully believe this is their year, you sure as hell know Rex believes it. If you seriously think those 52 guys will respect the self proclaimed best CB in the NFL and best player on the team, for bailing on a potential SB run then you are incredibly mistaken. If the Jets do go down the route of leaving Revis be, you can bet everything that the players will support it. Kris Jenkins in an interview was less than sympathetic with what Darrelle is doing. We're going to move on without him.

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Originally Posted by transmetropolitan View Post
It’s proven year in and year out in the NFL that talent is a rarer commodity than either cap space or cash. Show me the great team that has been truly crippled by the cap in the past 10 years? Simply does not exist. Most of the successful teams in the NFL in the past decade, the Steelers, Pats, Colts and Eagles, have been under the cap for years. The notion that you have in your head, that there’s no way the Jets can afford to keep this team together… not true. It’s the sort of thing management spins players to try to get them to take less than market value. It isn’t true because there’s always plenty of cash around for mid level players in FA. Like the contract the Jets themselves gave Faneca.
This proves nothing. How many of those teams (Steelers, Pats, Colts, Eagles) had elite QB money pumped into the CB position? Nothing like this has been "proven year in year out" because this would be the highest CB deal ever! It's funny you bring it up though - Why did the Pats not resign Asante Samuel? Why did they they trade Deion Branch? They have stayed under the cap because they've made the necessary cuts.


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There might be the odd player they can’t afford to resign, but it isn’t true that you’re going to lose all of Mangold, Harris, Holmes and Edwards because of Revis. In any case, right off the bat you don’t want to resign both Edwards and Holmes because they are so similar. Frankly I wouldn’t be falling over myself to resign either in a hurry. You don’t know what will happen to the cap post next CBA, but if they go to 18 game seasons then likely it goes up. The only teams the cap has hit in the past (and it’s going back to 2004ish) are older teams who were done anyway – the Packers and Titans from that time. Since then, everyone has been able to manage the cap so it’s not a problem in building a side. There’s no reason to think things are different now, other that the uncertainty surrounding next season means the owners are not wanting to be handing out big cheques (i.e. giving the player a nice strike fund at a time when the team’s revenue is threatened).
You absolutely would want to resign Holmes and Edwards, who aren't that similar. Edwards is more of a downfield WR, Holmes, you look to get the ball quickly too and let him get YAC. We also have Cotch and as a threesome I think they'll be pretty deadly, although we need to wait and see how that pans out (Again, pretty irrelevant to the topic at hand). Again I bring up the fact that NO TEAM IN HISTORY has won a title woth so much money invested in a CB. None! Also, it is mathematically impossible for the Jets to get them signed, I know guys who have worked it out when you look at the money they'll likely be demanding, and that was when we were assuming Revis would be more reasonable.

Secondly, if it was so easy to do, then why haven't we done it? If Revis' demands were even remotely understandable we'd have made the deal but they're not and there's no one that hurts more than Tanny, Rex, Woody and all the Jets fans. You seem to think that we don't want the guy anymore. We are in awe of his talent but there's a reason the deal hasn't been struck, because it will absolutely crucify our future cap space. I'm going to trust Mike Tannenbaum's judgement over yours, if that's alright.

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Originally Posted by transmetropolitan View Post
As for comparing Revis and Mangold… they have their own ways of dealing with business situations. If Mangold suffers a Leon Washington style injury in camp, and his career is permanently affected by that injury, are the Jets going to give him a prime market value deal next year because they owe it to him as a player? Not a chance in hell. That he wants to turn up and play – that’s up to him. He’s the one who will have to live the rest of his life with that decision if it goes **** up. Maybe it will work out better for him… you don’t know, but it’s an individual decision. My point is you cannot blinker yourself here to the broader picture. You cannot criticise Revis for doing this to the team because the team does it to players every single year when the boot is on the other foot. Loyalty is a two way street and so is disloyalty. You are so naive and one-eyed in your view of this it’s not true. Go and ask Leon Washington about the loyalty the Jets showed him (or Chris Baker, or Lavernues Coles etc).
This paragraph is so funny.

Hilarious that you would bring up Leon Washington, a perfect example of a player killing himself with greed. The Jets offered him a deal worth $4.5million a year - FACT! He turned it down because he felt he was worth Maurice Jones Drew money, his snake of an agent Alvin Keels kept twittering these stats trying to portray Leon is elite company and ultimately he only had himself to blame for how it happened.

As for Nick Mangold? Well I only brought him up to rubbish your idea of Revis having the support of the locker room. This is the guy the players would rally around, not sofa boy. It actually annoys me that the Jets aren't extending Mangold now, love the guy to bits and IMO they should give him a new contract on the spot. He is taking a risk, maybe he'll tear an ACL, maybe break a leg or maybe he'll help get the offensive line back to an elite level. Who know's. The fact that he's willing to take the risk just shows what he's all about, he actually has a reason to hold out, entering the final year of his contract.

All the examples you make. Coles, Washington, Mangold, Baker (lol) - You are so ignorant to the fundamental difference - Revis has THREE YEARS LEFT!!! On a contract that he actually held out to get! Loyalty is a two way street? What does this have to do with anything? The two parties agreed a deal in 2007 and one party has broken that deal. Guess who it was? He's bailed out of his original agreement looking for a deal that he's in no position to recieve. The Jets are no more loyal or disloyal than any other NFL franchise. They just can't allow Revis to hold the franchise hostage, which is effectively exactly what he's doing.

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Originally Posted by transmetropolitan View Post
It’s not about Revis being a “diva”. It’s about him getting what he can (what his level of play deserves) while the getting is good. Ultimately the contract Revis got was based on his draft slot, not his ability as a player. What realistic alternative did he have to signing that contract? And now he’s comprehensively outperformed that contract. The player is entitled to holdout, and the team is fining his accordingly.
Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

He's entitled to a new deal, yes. Is he entitled to the one he's after? NO! Because he doesn't have the leverage that Nnamdi had where it was "pay me or I go". Revis has nowhere to go but NFL irrelevance, he could get traded but I think that will be tough to work out. The Jets put out an improved contract over 4 years, Revis was insulted by the offer. Pretty sure it would have made him (just) the second highest paid DB over that term, which is more than understandable as he could play out that contract before returning to his outrageous demands.

The whole issue with Revis' situation is centred around the 4 years that he OWES us. The 4 years he agreed to play in 2007. He's putting the Jets in an impossible situation demanding this 3 years into a deal.

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Originally Posted by transmetropolitan View Post
Finally, you Jets fans crack me up. You all cried like babies when Revis didn’t win DPOY, suddenly when he’s asking to be paid like the DPOY should be paid you turn on him in hilarious style and claim he’s not that important anyway! You’re so fickle it’s ridiculous….
Hilarious way you have of spinning things.

He's not looking to be paid like a DPOY, he's actually looking for more than that and not only that but he's doing it in the most unreasonable of circumstances.

I said he wasn't important? Okay! Good imagination you've got there.
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  #26  
Old 10.08.2010, 04:36 PM
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You said in your previous post you would contend without him, Ryan has always had elite defences, and most tellingly 'He is not key to the success of our team'.

Riiiiiight.

So he's easily the best defensive player in the league (he must be otherwise he'd be unlucky not to have won and not 'robbed'), yet he's not key to the success of your team?

We might well find out just how key he is to the success of the Jets.
Again you're twisting my words.

I said he's not "THE" key to Jets success (Nice of you to edit that out). Look at what he did last season and we still didn't win the SB. Dismantling our team for Revis' needs would be stupid, and would hurt the development of Sanchez (Which I believe is the most imortant thing, he more than anyone is THE key to the Jets success if he can step up).

And Ryan has always coached an elite defense. It would certainly regress without one of the best players in football but I don't think it would fall to pieces. You haven't once taken into account that since the AFC Championship game we've added Kris Jenkins, Jason Taylor, Brodney Pool, Antonio Cromartie, Kyle Wilson etc. - Our defense with Revis would be even better than the #1 unit last season but without him, I still think we'd be decent.

Even without Revis, there's a lot worse out there in terms of talent than the Jets.
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  #27  
Old 10.08.2010, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Woolley_Man View Post
Disagree,The jets wanted and got Revis on a 6 year deal.It took a bit more money and the funky buy out but they got what they wanted in the end.
Which by the way is looking more and more like a genius move by Tanny.

WTF was Trans on about there anyways?
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  #28  
Old 10.08.2010, 04:42 PM
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I think he's worth double what he's asking for, and the Jets should pay him.

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  #29  
Old 10.08.2010, 04:42 PM
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Gee transmetropolitan, like the Jets much?

Anyway, I pretty much agree with what the other Jets fans in this thread have already said, the Jets should not in anyway fold to his demands he is simply being unreasonable.
Holding out with 3-4 years left on a contract he held out for in the first place and then asking for QB money on top of that is ridiculous.

The Jets hold all the cards here and Revis would be a fool to sit at home for 3 years and waste the prime of his career, you think he's going to get 16 mil a year after having 3 seasons off? I don't think so. While there is no doubt Revis is one of the best in the game right now the Jets have depth at CB and Ryan's schemes always make us a top defensive team.
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  #30  
Old 10.08.2010, 05:02 PM
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Ugh, complex stuff. Really, this write up was from Jason who posts on a Jets forum and runs a site on the salary cap. Made my head hurt more than anything:

A Potential Wrinkle in the Revis Holdout

Just a small update on the Darrelle Revis holdout. Almost anyone following the situation knows that an important date in the Revis holdout is August 10th. Its been talked about on various Jets websites , including by our buddies over at The Jets Blog , as well as a few national media sources. In case you were unaware the reason the date is important is because of a rule in the CBA that states

For the purposes of calculating Accrued Seasons under this Agreement , for any League Year beginning with the 1993 League Year , a player shall not receive an Accrued Season for any League Year in which the player is under contract to a Club and in which he failed to report to such Club at least thirty (30) days prior to the first regular season game of that season.

Under the standard CBA agreement a free agent requires four accrued seasons of service to become an unrestricted free agent. Revis currently has three. Most have disregarded the date because Revis is under contract for the next three years and odds are five years of service , which is what he would have at the end of 2012, is going to be enough to reach unrestricted free agency at the end of his contract.

However , we have to realize that the Revis contract is unique. Revis' contract has a unique feature in which he can buyout the last two seasons of his contract , worth about 1.3 million dollars , which the Jets can then buyback for around 15 million dollars , a number that can rise to 20 million based on Revis' on field performance.

But most people are failing to take into account the actual mechanism by which Revis' contract operates. Darrelle does not simply tell the Jets that he is going to buyout his deal and they simply buy it back. Revis will actually void his contract when he exercises the buyback. The day he buys out the deal he becomes a free agent. His agents negotiated a clause into the deal to not allow the Jets to designate him a franchise player in lieu of buying back the contract for a guaranteed 20 million dollars , so we know for a fact that Revis is a free agent when he buys the deal out.

This is what seems to make the August 10th deadline potentially so important. If Revis loses a year of service he will only have three years of service under his belt. Rather than being an unrestricted free agent he will be a restricted free agent under terms of the CBA. As a restricted free agent the Jets hold tremendous leverage on Revis as they would no longer be under obligation to buyback those years at the high price tag. Instead they could tender Revis at a cost significantly lower than his buyback salary and then begin to use the franchise tag thereafter to keep him property of the team. That would be a significant loss of earnings for Revis if such a situation were to occur. Again this is nothing new if you are following the team around the internet as the subject has been discussed many times. So that seems to make August 10th a huge date for the team. But reality is often different than it seems.

We are all forgetting that a new set of rules are in place in 2010 because 2010 is an uncapped season. In an uncapped year the required time for unrestricted free agency jumps from four years of service to six years of service. All signs at this point in the labor negotiations basically point to both sides playing the year out without a new CBA in place and then seeing who blinks first in March. Here is why this affects Revis and makes the August 10th date likely meaningless. It also adds a new dimension to his holdout from the team.

Revis' contract will void the week following the Super Bowl , which is part of the 2010 League Year. Its more or less that limbo period in football during the month of February where not much goes on besides a few cuts and its so far beyond the end of the regular season that most believe its a new year. But on the NFL calender it is not. The 2011 League Year does not begin until March and teams do not begin workouts until mid-March. That mid-March date is likely the first date by which the NFL and the NFL Players Union will hammer out a deal in order to preserve all aspects of the offseason as a loss of three weeks of free agency is not enough of an impediment to either side as players an easily be integrated into the system and get their money whether they are signed March 5th or March 20th. The next important date would be the NFL draft in April. Regardless of what the sides consider the make or break date , its fair to say that it is after March. Even if a new agreement were to occur before then it's likely it would not take affect until March so as to not hamper the salary cap for the 2010 NFL season as some teams will come in below negotiated minimums and others will be far higher than allowable limits.

And all of this leaves a superstar cornerback in limbo. When Revis voids his contract in February all signs point to the fact that he is going to be a restricted free agent whether he sits out all of training camp or all of the NFL football season. Three years or four years of service makes no difference in a year where you need six seasons to become an unrestricted free agent. This also sheds new light on a potential reason why Revis is holding out right now and willing to give up 20 million guaranteed by doing so. Revis was likely not playing in 2010 for 20 million dollars. He was likely playing for a 3 million dollar or so qualifying offer from the Jets in 2011 and a 9 million dollar franchise tag in 2012. Sure he could hope the Jets would exercise the buyback , but that would be putting faith in an organization and there is almost no trust between the players and teams right now.

Is it possible that Revis is protected from being tendered? It is possible , but highly unlikely. When Revis signed his original contract in 2007 there was labor harmony and no person anticipated that an uncapped season would occur that changed the limits for unrestricted free agency. Considering no players escaped restricted free agency with the new rules in place in 2010 it is hard to imagine that Revis' agents would have negotiated that type of protection into the contract.

All in all the uncapped year may have added a new reason as to why Revis is now staging this holdout and why it may go on longer than any of us thought.

And as always you can receive updates Via twiter @nyjetscap


http://www.nyjetscap...evisholdout.php
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