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  #1  
Old 13.07.2016, 07:05 PM
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British Bulldawg British Bulldawg is offline
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Default How is Isaiah Crowell not suspended by the Browns???

After posting that picture!

How is Isaiah Crowell still employed by the Browns???

Was that not gross misconduct under contract ??

Was that not bringing the franchise into disrepute under contract?

Hang your heads in shame over this stance of an apology has been made money donated and that's enough for us?

Absolutely disgusted by this, I've never been so ashamed to be part of this franchise in my entire life.

The fact that he's still being paid by us makes me sick to my stomach!

Last edited by British Bulldawg; 12.12.2016 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 14.07.2016, 04:31 PM
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wayne ellis wayne ellis is offline
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I would have expected even one of the top players to get a stiffer penalty than that, a bum like Crowell should have been cut as soon as his idiocy was exposed...
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  #3  
Old 15.07.2016, 12:29 PM
Tractor boys 350 Tractor boys 350 is offline
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Have to disagree with you British and please let me explain why

Firstly emotion: on a scale of 1-10 on stupidest things you could ever do in such a raw emotional situation sweeping the country this was a 12 if not higher, pure stupidity, however it was stupidity based on anger and deep seated mistrust and emotion and it was an act he realised was wrong when he took it down. Yes it was a dumb thing but trying to take the emotion out of this it was an emotional reaction based on life experience that me, you or quite a large percentage of people of the US could not hope to understand

It was a stupid reaction to a social situation that has plagued that country for over a century and a problem that does not look likely to be solved, this was one small added event to an already burning bridge. He reacted to a perceived in his view reality of life in the US and we don't know how real that is but events over the last few weeks or even years have done nothing to dispel that reality

Secondly: the Browns, I'm not sure in reality what they could do or should do, especially given the current CBA as well. Cutting him would be purely based on emotions and trying to placate an angry section of fans but in terms of the team or franchise or league I don't think it would really matter and it would also set a precident that both the team and the league could not step back from because the moment you cut someone for making a mistake by posting a picture you then in reality put the franchise in a position where as soon as any player makes a single mistake then you have to cut them, especially if it's something based on high emotions

Also in terms of public relations then your also treading dangerous waters, regardless of whatever reason they decided to cut it would be viewed as rich white guy acting when he knows nothing about the life of poor black guy, I'm not saying that's not a reason to not cut either but that will be one perception out there regardless of what happened

Also in practical terms I'm not sure how it would really help the team, for starters if this was a high profile player he ain't getting cut, regardless, also whilst cutting him sends a moral message out it really means nothing when another team picks him up which will happen, that moral deciscion then means little

I do agree about the pay check donation, it really means little, just like cutting a guy from a football team would mean little, what I would like to see happen is him doing real work and time in the community with the police, get him spending time with them, realising what a job they do and then have him going into the community alongside the police and spreading that message in the communities he claims to speak for
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  #4  
Old 19.07.2016, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Tractor boys 350 View Post
Have to disagree with you British and please let me explain why

Firstly emotion: on a scale of 1-10 on stupidest things you could ever do in such a raw emotional situation sweeping the country this was a 12 if not higher, pure stupidity, however it was stupidity based on anger and deep seated mistrust and emotion and it was an act he realised was wrong when he took it down. Yes it was a dumb thing but trying to take the emotion out of this it was an emotional reaction based on life experience that me, you or quite a large percentage of people of the US could not hope to understand

It was a stupid reaction to a social situation that has plagued that country for over a century and a problem that does not look likely to be solved, this was one small added event to an already burning bridge. He reacted to a perceived in his view reality of life in the US and we don't know how real that is but events over the last few weeks or even years have done nothing to dispel that reality

Secondly: the Browns, I'm not sure in reality what they could do or should do, especially given the current CBA as well. Cutting him would be purely based on emotions and trying to placate an angry section of fans but in terms of the team or franchise or league I don't think it would really matter and it would also set a precident that both the team and the league could not step back from because the moment you cut someone for making a mistake by posting a picture you then in reality put the franchise in a position where as soon as any player makes a single mistake then you have to cut them, especially if it's something based on high emotions

Also in terms of public relations then your also treading dangerous waters, regardless of whatever reason they decided to cut it would be viewed as rich white guy acting when he knows nothing about the life of poor black guy, I'm not saying that's not a reason to not cut either but that will be one perception out there regardless of what happened

Also in practical terms I'm not sure how it would really help the team, for starters if this was a high profile player he ain't getting cut, regardless, also whilst cutting him sends a moral message out it really means nothing when another team picks him up which will happen, that moral deciscion then means little

I do agree about the pay check donation, it really means little, just like cutting a guy from a football team would mean little, what I would like to see happen is him doing real work and time in the community with the police, get him spending time with them, realising what a job they do and then have him going into the community alongside the police and spreading that message in the communities he claims to speak for

It's plain and simple to me we live in a civilised world.

This action promoted uncivilised actions from a stance that kids look up to.

You know what if he had been 13 - 18 I would understand a little of the dumb immature hateful racist reaction - but this lad is going on 24 and promoting murder!

This is worse then Roethilsberger paying off victim of rxxe instead of clearing your name.

This is a clear violation of the players contract and if the shoe had been on the other foot with roles reversed you just know the player wouldn't have a job right now.

This #34 needs locking up in an institution or facility 24/7 to think that this kind of uncivilised promotion is acceptable.

Did he take it down or did his agent it doesn't matter that it was for a short time- once it's out there it spreads like wild fire.

How the Browns think a video apology / paying off the problem in a donation / attending a police officers funeral is enough to justify these actions is beyond me.

I'm embarrassed to be associated with the club right now and can't support any people that think this was a justified response to actions such as that.

I hope the fans hit the owner where it hurts in his pocket and demonstrate around the stadium until Cleveland is no longer associated with a racist inciting murder!

NO TO #34!
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Old 21.07.2016, 11:28 AM
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Tom Brady "potentially" (still unproven!) knowledge about slightly reducing the air pressure of footballs in a blowout victory 2 years ago = 4 game ban, draft picks removed, major implications for the franchise and Brady's personal legacy.

Isaiah Crowell stirring racial tensions and outright promoting the murder of police officers = minimal financial penalty, video apology and maybe a slap on the wrist?

Farcical.
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  #6  
Old 21.07.2016, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by JGregory View Post
Tom Brady "potentially" (still unproven!) knowledge about slightly reducing the air pressure of footballs in a blowout victory 2 years ago = 4 game ban, draft picks removed, major implications for the franchise and Brady's personal legacy.

Isaiah Crowell stirring racial tensions and outright promoting the murder of police officers = minimal financial penalty, video apology and maybe a slap on the wrist?

Farcical.
It's an absolute disgrace, it was such an uncivilised action it should have resulted in jail time never mind a loss of employment. It goes against the very moral fibre that a lot of civilised countries were built upon.

This is a grown man going on 24 years old preaching racism and murder - this has no place in society never mind a sports franchise.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded / disgusted and outraged by the Browns reaction over this. I'm so ashamed to be associated with them in any way I've cut all ties with them over their deluded stance on the matter.

Last edited by British Bulldawg; 21.07.2016 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 22.07.2016, 08:30 AM
Tractor boys 350 Tractor boys 350 is offline
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I'm sorry but these last few posts by both British and JGregory are examples of just how fans over react these days and ask for things whilst clearly either dismissing the context of the situation or not understanding it

Was it a horrible thing that he did, yes it was, wax it uncivilised, I guess if you look at it in the media sense of how ISIS promotes itself and western media portrays it, yes i can see that angle but IMO to see that angle you want to have to look for it

The problem here is accusations of promoting racism or murder based on racism without acknowledging the context. This wasn't some guy who just sat there one day and said hey you know what I hate all white people, especially police so I'm going to go out and incite trouble, this wasn't someone who decided he wanted to join the klan and wear bed sheets either

IMO and going on what he has said since the incident, this was someone who along with, in all probability millions of African Americans, reacted in a way to several incidents at that time, which where several incidents on top of a century and longer of inequality, at this point I will also point out, having done some research, was their not an incident within the last year of a similar nature in Cleveland and would Crowell have not reacted to that if he was being intentionally racist

So trying to put some perspective on this, yes he did a horrible thing, uncivilised possibly but then many people would say handcuffing someone then standing up, stepping back and shooting them whilst they lay on the floor was uncivilised as well

The point is, and this referes to his age, the difference between Crowell and the vast majority of African Americans was Crowell snapped and put a stupid thing up on social media, he should not have done but he made a mistake, it doesn't matter what age you are, if you see an injustice, one you believe has been commited on racial intentions then you will get angry regardless of your age, how you deal with it is different and how he dealt with it at first was bad but

He realised this by taking it down himself, he probably looked at this in the cold light of day and thought even though my beliefs remain the same that was bad to do that and since then he has shown evidence of remorse, I know that British won't believe it but I think that Crowell could do nothing to change that view

That finally brings me on to the Browns and the league who I think are doing the right thing, they realise that though it was bad it happened in a set of circumstances and a context that, pardon the pun is not black and white. From what I have read the Browns have asked him to take accountability for his actions which he appears to have done, he has spent time with the police and attended one of the funerals, again from what I have read this earnt him a lot of respect from Dallas police officers who commented that they were of the opinion that he was genuinely remorseful about his actions

Should he get game bans, possibly yes if for no other reason than to set a precident, to refer back to the pats fan analogy, I believe Brady systematically set out to lie and hinder and investigation, not the same as reacting to a highly sensitive race issue

As for Browns fans protesting and hitting the pockets of the owner, I'm not sure how that helps the team or the fans, would that not be 40 thousand plus white folks who have little or no idea of what it's like to grow up as a black person venting anger and especially given what's happened in Cleveland in the last year etc, I don't think the picture would go down well
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Old 23.07.2016, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tractor boys 350 View Post
I'm sorry but these last few posts by both British and JGregory are examples of just how fans over react these days and ask for things whilst clearly either dismissing the context of the situation or not understanding it

Was it a horrible thing that he did, yes it was, wax it uncivilised, I guess if you look at it in the media sense of how ISIS promotes itself and western media portrays it, yes i can see that angle but IMO to see that angle you want to have to look for it

The problem here is accusations of promoting racism or murder based on racism without acknowledging the context. This wasn't some guy who just sat there one day and said hey you know what I hate all white people, especially police so I'm going to go out and incite trouble, this wasn't someone who decided he wanted to join the klan and wear bed sheets either

IMO and going on what he has said since the incident, this was someone who along with, in all probability millions of African Americans, reacted in a way to several incidents at that time, which where several incidents on top of a century and longer of inequality, at this point I will also point out, having done some research, was their not an incident within the last year of a similar nature in Cleveland and would Crowell have not reacted to that if he was being intentionally racist

So trying to put some perspective on this, yes he did a horrible thing, uncivilised possibly but then many people would say handcuffing someone then standing up, stepping back and shooting them whilst they lay on the floor was uncivilised as well

The point is, and this referes to his age, the difference between Crowell and the vast majority of African Americans was Crowell snapped and put a stupid thing up on social media, he should not have done but he made a mistake, it doesn't matter what age you are, if you see an injustice, one you believe has been commited on racial intentions then you will get angry regardless of your age, how you deal with it is different and how he dealt with it at first was bad but

He realised this by taking it down himself, he probably looked at this in the cold light of day and thought even though my beliefs remain the same that was bad to do that and since then he has shown evidence of remorse, I know that British won't believe it but I think that Crowell could do nothing to change that view

That finally brings me on to the Browns and the league who I think are doing the right thing, they realise that though it was bad it happened in a set of circumstances and a context that, pardon the pun is not black and white. From what I have read the Browns have asked him to take accountability for his actions which he appears to have done, he has spent time with the police and attended one of the funerals, again from what I have read this earnt him a lot of respect from Dallas police officers who commented that they were of the opinion that he was genuinely remorseful about his actions

Should he get game bans, possibly yes if for no other reason than to set a precident, to refer back to the pats fan analogy, I believe Brady systematically set out to lie and hinder and investigation, not the same as reacting to a highly sensitive race issue

As for Browns fans protesting and hitting the pockets of the owner, I'm not sure how that helps the team or the fans, would that not be 40 thousand plus white folks who have little or no idea of what it's like to grow up as a black person venting anger and especially given what's happened in Cleveland in the last year etc, I don't think the picture would go down well
The incident in Cleveland was not even close to being similar to theses recent events - the one in Cleveland the kid was starting to pull a fake gun from his belt towards police.

No millions of Americans didn't reacted in that way posting pictures like that, they took to the streets in protest and realised not all police are bad but these one or two should be given death penalty etc.

The type of reaction from Crowell is like from a 13 year old kid in school hating the world.

You haven't even got the facts right either they were on ground and shot. How two men can't restrain one arm each of a suspect is beyond me. Odd how the video calmly turns away then turns back and we don't see who did what and if his right hand was reaching for the gun

The other video is taking someone's word for it what's gone on beforehand with the guy laying there.

In both cases why aren't the police trying fist aid when they have clearly disabled the situation? Just standing there watching someone die is beyond belief. They should be paramedic trained in my opinion just like the firefighters trained in 2 jobs.

He put his feelings up there at the time and didn't care - all apology is to make sure he still gets paid. When angry real feelings come out and he showed his true colours, unlike every other personality that reacted in a different way.

In 99% of normal people's mind that was not the first reaction they had in hate and spread violence.

There has to be a punishment for that reaction as it gives free reign to any numpty to spread anything without conciseness ?

There's been no punishment at all - that's what I can't get my head round- shoe on the other foot and the player would be out the door.

The proof was there in black and white and the club should have fired him or suspended him on the spot after admitting all his doing.

Then appeals / circumstances / actions since come into play - but to sit there and do nothing apart from a meeting saying you need to do this or that etc is ridiculous given the guilty plea and evidence there.

Instant suspension or dismissal breach of conduct in contract - appeal - then start the process of overturning it or not.

To do nothing really just makes me think this softly softly approach can't and really shouldn't be the response to this action.

In the news I see Rice wants back in- they you go Cleveland we can start to build our own little team now. Take Roethilsberger on when he starts to get on a bit and we'll almost have the full set. :-(

Last edited by British Bulldawg; 23.07.2016 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 02.08.2016, 12:45 PM
Tractor boys 350 Tractor boys 350 is offline
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I'm not back to score points or anything similar, British is entitled to his point of view but personally for me it's good to see that the intial feedback coming back from various media including local Cleveland media etc that it seems the intial response to Crowell from the fans has been positive or at least not noticibly changed, he did a signing thing for fans at camp that lasted around 25 mins and nothing was mentioned to him from fans

I understand the response from a certain group of fans etc, it would happen at any team, but it's good to see fans appear to be putting the incident into perspective and accepting his version and accepting his actions following on from incident
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Old 13.09.2016, 01:02 AM
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Crowell's agent: "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? You're not good enough to be this stupid!"

Levity aside, what a disappointment from both sides. Isaiah shouldn't have posted something like that and the Browns should have cut him or at least discussed cutting him to put the fright in him. Completely unacceptable for a grown man to impulsively post a depiction of someone being murdered when you're supposed to be a role model for children. It doesn't even matter that it's a LEO being depicted, although it definitely adds a layer of disrespect. It would have been just as wrong as if someone posted an image of a black man in that position. It's deplorable that people would even try to justify such hatred as acceptable forms of freedom of speech for someone in the public light. Hate begets hate.

I'm not sure what is being said about Cleveland media's response is accurate. I've seen plenty of articles and segments showing everyone's disappointment and everyone I have talked to around here said he should be cut. Unsurprisingly, that week dozens of people I talked with just interjected their feelings that he should be cut into random non-Browns small talk.

That being said, I'm now fine with him being a Brown since his revised apology (his initial one being a sad attempt at justifying his actions with much the same rhetoric as Tractor boys 350 uses here) and his actions of donating his first game check to the fund for the families affected by the police massacre in Dallas. He made a mistake with his words and then he put his money where his mouth is in resolving it with his actions. I still don't like him as far as a football fit with the Browns but at least now I can watch him play without it hanging over my head.

Including excerpts from his revised apology:
“I would never wish violence on anyone, especially a police officer,” Crowell said. “I’m sorry to all the Browns fans, all the people who support my career and all the kids out there who look up to me. But most of all, all the good police officers who are out there protecting us every day. By posting that picture, I became part of the problem. And I don’t want to be part of the problem, I want to be part of the solution. . . .

“I know this may not change your mind about me, and I can’t take the post back. But I’m sorry, and moving forward, I’m committed to being part of the solution.”
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