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  #8781  
Old 27.11.2014, 11:59 AM
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RichardCunliffe RichardCunliffe is offline
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Lots of 'grey' in this discussion, but basically.........

People who believe in their god don't need evidence to support their beliefs, the whole 'blind faith' approach just reinforces their belief, it's part of it's very foundation. They will never need physical evidence of god, well not in the sense of 'non-believers' anyway.

People who don't believe in a god will always want hard physical evidence to convince them otherwise. Even then, it will have to be 100% 'water tight' in what it proves. That then cancels out the 'blind faith' aspect of religion, so even when presented with evidence it calls into question if they have a 'true' belief.

......hence the 'going round in circles'. It will never change.

For me, people who 'turn' to god, i.e. make a conscious decision in their adult life, often do so out of fear. They need help in one form or another, so they turn to a belief that offers hope, miracles, a way out. Is that wrong? Sometimes hope or belief can be all that someone needs. It's not that God was 'looking down' on them and chose to help (disclaimer - he might of. bases covered), it's more a case the persons actions and demeanour changed, which in turn helped their situation. Without that hope, they struggle to take action. So whilst religion can have a negative impact, it also does good. Living your life by the teachings of an ancient book is better than having no guidance at all for some people.
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  #8782  
Old 27.11.2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RichardCunliffe View Post
Lots of 'grey' in this discussion, but basically.........

People who believe in their god don't need evidence to support their beliefs, the whole 'blind faith' approach just reinforces their belief, it's part of it's very foundation. They will never need physical evidence of god, well not in the sense of 'non-believers' anyway.

People who don't believe in a god will always want hard physical evidence to convince them otherwise. Even then, it will have to be 100% 'water tight' in what it proves. That then cancels out the 'blind faith' aspect of religion, so even when presented with evidence it calls into question if they have a 'true' belief.

......hence the 'going round in circles'. It will never change.

For me, people who 'turn' to god, i.e. make a conscious decision in their adult life, often do so out of fear. They need help in one form or another, so they turn to a belief that offers hope, miracles, a way out. Is that wrong? Sometimes hope or belief can be all that someone needs. It's not that God was 'looking down' on them and chose to help (disclaimer - he might of. bases covered), it's more a case the persons actions and demeanour changed, which in turn helped their situation. Without that hope, they struggle to take action. So whilst religion can have a negative impact, it also does good. Living your life by the teachings of an ancient book is better than having no guidance at all for some people.
Good post. It's an interesting debate isn't it.

To be fair it's an interesting thread when it doesn't descend to name calling and belittling with comments that make me think from both sides.
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  #8783  
Old 27.11.2014, 12:10 PM
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Well of the people who have met who are Christians I'd happily say that a much higher percentage of them are very nice people who would make the world a lot happier and more pleasant if society were like them than the population in general.

The way this thread goes it makes it sound like all Christians are either like our friend the Wembley street preacher or dangerous people subverting society.

But hey as I said I appear to be a minority of one being non-religious and asking for a bit more tolerance. (Which I do find ironic given tolerance is one of the things people on here berate religious people for not having...)
well i'd say its about the same and god makes no difference.

plenty of christians/religious people do take the bible as stories with a message rather than actual history and plenty are willing to move forward on some issues rather than stay in the dark ages.

see this is where things are going wrong i debating this Csonka and now his certain set of beliefs (including a pm he sent me of an actual abortion during a debate on that topic) and the brand he follows.

tbh Csonka might be that fella

thats the thing religion is a dangerous thing, he can have positives but also negatives.

i'm plenty tolerant, i dont have any issue with people believing until they try to take away other peoples rights. its not like i ask people do you like God and if they say yes i spit in there face and walk away

but this is a thread for debate, what would you like people to say in this thread?
tbh the god part is secondary to the opinion wanting to stop abortions or not allow gay marriage but in this thread its all linked.
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  #8784  
Old 27.11.2014, 12:11 PM
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To be fair it's an interesting thread when it doesn't descend to name calling and belittling with comments that make me think from both sides.
tbh i think youre misreading the discussion or at least its intent from my end.
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  #8785  
Old 27.11.2014, 12:19 PM
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tbh i think youre misreading the discussion or at least its intent from my end.
I think the intention from your end is quite clear.

To be honest if Csonka keep taking the bait he's either brave, daft or committed
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  #8786  
Old 27.11.2014, 12:27 PM
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I think the intention from your end is quite clear.

To be honest if Csonka keep taking the bait he's either brave, daft or committed
my intent is to point out some flaws, while taking the light pee.

i dont see it as any different than when he didnt like the Blacklist and pointed out the flaws he saw in it
which he is free to do, as i'm free to point out flaws and where they lead in this book.

i would be interested in your thoughts on the longer reply post above.
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  #8787  
Old 27.11.2014, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by goodkarma84 View Post
my intent is to point out some flaws, while taking the light pee.

i dont see it as any different than when he didnt like the Blacklist and pointed out the flaws he saw in it
which he is free to do, as i'm free to point out flaws and where they lead in this book.

i would be interested in your thoughts on the longer reply post above.
I had about 6 or 7 lines written, saw your condescending line above and thought it really wasn't worth finishing.

The drive was roughly is if you think Christians are roughly the same in their attitudes to most of people in life then you are purposely ignoring almost everything.

Yes they don't agree with you on a number of things morally, but that's not what I said.
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  #8788  
Old 27.11.2014, 12:47 PM
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Yes this is a tricky one.. why does God allow suffering.. why is there suffering.. we could explore this but you have already shown a tendency to mock and belittle and so in truth even if we went there I feel it would be on 'deaf' ears and a mocking spirit.
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  #8789  
Old 27.11.2014, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Csonka#39 View Post
Yes this is a tricky one.. why does God allow suffering.. why is there suffering.. we could explore this but you have already shown a tendency to mock and belittle and so in truth even if we went there I feel it would be on 'deaf' ears and a mocking spirit.
As noted Csonk I can't say I agree with all your views and your beliefs, but you alone have the power to cause this thread to die a happy death.

As you say above you are just going to get people who will "mock and belittle". You are not going to convert anyone.

My thoughts would be to show your faith in your actions rather than words on here and do positive for the world
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  #8790  
Old 27.11.2014, 12:55 PM
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you alone have the power to cause this thread to die a happy death.
Yeah, but he'll just come back three days later. (sorry, I couldn't resist).
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