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  #9761  
Old 18.06.2015, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Csonka#39 View Post
I am obviously missing your point.. the bible is the bible and if translated from the original texts as given by God I would say it is pretty good.. if you are referring to versions.. then do your own research ?
OK, I'll do this slowly. The bible is not "the bible" is it? There are multiple versions that suit various denominations at various times, all of them edited. By man.

Now I guess God could've arranged for an original bible and man to edit it over the aeons (presumably with Gods hand in it because it's his truth as you say) but you'd surely wonder why his omnipotent self didn't just produce the finished version himself to begin with.

Wouldn't you?

Actually don't answer that.
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  #9762  
Old 18.06.2015, 04:11 PM
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The real issue is one of authority....that is to say or ask... is God’s Word or mans word the authority...? So the question is could or did God use evolution to create? The answer I believe is No. A belief in millions of years of evolution not only contradicts what is the clear teaching of Genesis and the rest of the Scriptures but also impugns the character of God. He told us in the book of Genesis that He created the whole universe and everything in it in six (and I believe literal) days by His word: “Then God said ... .” His Word is the evidence of how and when God created, and His Word is incredibly clear.Anything that deviates from that is imho.. wrong and not biblical or scriptural..
But its not as if the Pope has suddenly dismissed God and is now sitting at home binging on the Big Bang Theory and watching endless re runs of Dogma

He still believes in God so for me your issue is that he doesnt agree with your literal view which is fair enough but for me neither of you are right so whats the fuss, before you respond yes i do get why you view it as a fuss
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  #9763  
Old 18.06.2015, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Csonka#39 View Post
Luther translated the bible from Latin to German so it had a wider audience.. this was a good thing..
As for taking books away and re categorizing.. well look many people have tried to add or take away from Gods word.. he gives clear warning in scripture about doing so by the way.. but ultimately I believe the bible with it's 66 books is the work God wanted us to have .. it's translation has been faithful to the original written text all those 1000s of years ago as we can see from the scrolls and manuscripts we have unearthed throughout history.
Any idea as to why he took so long after the death of Jesus to translate this to man BTW, i mean if he could create the world in 6 days and burn 10 commandments onto stone in seconds how long would it have took to have just made them appear in every language used by mankind at that time
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  #9764  
Old 18.06.2015, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Csonka#39 View Post
most people I know have several versions of the bible.. I have the KJV the NKJV and ESV and an NIV (pre 1984) a student bible and international childrens bible and a living translation.. these all convey the same message but using words to help understand without losing the actual meaning.. any one who studies or reads should have more than one copy.. you do need a good 'word for word' translation and an analytical concordance is a good idea..

while we might need to 'change' some words due to words changing their meaning or dropping from modern usage we find the word that obviously gets closest to the original in modern terms thus keeping the message so you also need a good phrase for phrase bible..

here is a web site I hope can help you.. http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-translations.html
But words only change meaning due to mankind, if the bible teachings are word for word the gospel then only those words should be used and you are going against God are you not by translating your own meaning to some of those words
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  #9765  
Old 19.06.2015, 08:40 AM
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If I said the universe was a jet engine and I asked you to explain it.. you could talk about the laws of nature, mechanical engineering etc... or you can say it was the invention of Frank Whittle. It would then be stupid to ask the people to then choose between the 2.. wouldn't it??
The question before you is do you accept the jet engine come about by unguided 'natural' processes or by Mr. Whittles inventive intelligence.

the answer seems pretty clear to me.. is it to you?
Sir Frank Whittle's work was an extension of the work of a couple of thousand years of work from many others, dating all the way back to the first century and the 'Hero engine' He did not dream the turbojet alone. His work was exemplary, but he did not invent the whole jet engine from his own brain, as you seem to think he did. He didn't even apply the first patent for a turbojet engine. His work was on the back of others, as he himself would admit to anyone who asked him. (most people of science are the first to admit that their work is often spawned by the earlier revelations of others - science is more often refinement than reinvention)

As such it would indeed be foolish to choose between unguided natural processes or by Mr Whittle's inventive intelligence, since both answers would be wrong.


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Originally Posted by Csonka#39 View Post
I don't believe anyone who doubts God or his word can truly knows who this God is.. and that includes the Pope and I honestly am not bothered if people find that incredible I consider it the truth.. with God.. the bible says.. ALL things are possible.. I believe that even if the pope clearly does not.. he might 'speak' for the current Catholic church but he does not speak for me.. and I am not a part of his institution ....
So you know the bible and its meanings better than the Pope? You're right, I do find that incredible, frankly ludicrous, and immensely arrogant of you.
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  #9766  
Old 19.06.2015, 08:53 AM
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Sir Frank Whittle's work was an extension of the work of a couple of thousand years of work from many others, dating all the way back to the first century and the 'Hero engine' He did not dream the turbojet alone. His work was exemplary, but he did not invent the whole jet engine from his own brain, as you seem to think he did. He didn't even apply the first patent for a turbojet engine. His work was on the back of others, as he himself would admit to anyone who asked him. (most people of science are the first to admit that their work is often spawned by the earlier revelations of others - science is more often refinement than reinvention)
As such it would indeed be foolish to choose between unguided natural
processes or by Mr Whittle's inventive intelligence, since both answers would be wrong.
You know the crux of the point I was making so lets not go off on one...



Quote:
So you know the bible and its meanings better than the Pope? You're right, I do
find that incredible, frankly ludicrous, and immensely arrogant of
you.
I never said that.. but I will say that I believe the bible is clear that God created and in 6 days.. God formed man from the dust of the ground.. there was no evolutionary process ..that is not claiming to know the bible better than the pope and it is not arrogant at all.. truth is not arrogance.. it is just stating the obvious from the text.. if the Pope wishes to believe or go a different route he needs to show it from scripture.. but I do know he will not be able to.. you do keep insulting my integrity and character .. don't you..if you do not like the answers why come in here and post ??
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  #9767  
Old 19.06.2015, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Csonka#39 View Post
you do keep insulting my integrity and character .. don't you..if you do not like the answers why come in here and post ??
Because if nobody questioned your answers it would just be a thread of your own where nobody had any free will to think outside the box or question what was being said.

A bit like a world where biblical passages are literal and not for personal interpretation or questioning. See?
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  #9768  
Old 19.06.2015, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by HSTDriver View Post
Because if nobody questioned your answers it would just be a thread of your own where nobody had any free will to think outside the box or question what was being said.

A bit like a world where biblical passages are literal and not for personal interpretation or questioning. See?

Actually if no one questioned then the thread would prob vanish.. but even if you do want to come in here and post at least be respectful..
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  #9769  
Old 19.06.2015, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Csonka#39 View Post
Luther translated the bible from Latin to German so it had a wider audience.. this was a good thing..
As for taking books away and re categorizing.. well look many people have tried to add or take away from Gods word.. he gives clear warning in scripture about doing so by the way.. but ultimately I believe the bible with it's 66 books is the work God wanted us to have .. it's translation has been faithful to the original written text all those 1000s of years ago as we can see from the scrolls and manuscripts we have unearthed throughout history.
If you spoke 2 or more languages - even if they are both modern and similar - there's no way you could believe that human beings could perfectly translate anything, let alone a book that long, written in so many styles, with context we don't have nowadays (or even a thousand years later) and via multiple languages (the Bible wasn't even written in one text) without there being mistakes or things lost in translation. You don't even get identical versions between modern English and modern German in a manual on how to work a dishwasher! And then never mind the fact that some of those who wrote the Bible were writing in a language (Greek) that they were far from comfortable in. I speak French to a high standard, but ask me to write a long rambling story piece and you can guarantee that I'm not always going to convey exactly what I thought I was conveying. Because even being able to do something to a high standard isn't good enough, frankly.
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  #9770  
Old 19.06.2015, 09:11 AM
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Actually if no one questioned then the thread would prob vanish.. but even if you do want to come in here and post at least be respectful..
Am always respectful. Firm, undoubtedly, but always with respect.
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