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  #1  
Old 02.12.2012, 09:10 PM
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Default that has to be the worst I have seen them play

ZERO offence its time for Whiz to go he's lead us down a dead end he couldnt spot a QB if his job depended on it. if he had a HOFer on the roster he would name the other guy starter

that was embarrassing to watch the line held up pretty well but the QB play was monumentally '#@~@~@# bad
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Old 03.12.2012, 02:34 AM
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What happens if Kolb comes back and looks like a starting level QB? Does the poor season just get put down to injuries? I'm no Whiz fan but it's not his fault he's got no tackles, poor running backs and no starting QB. He could've done a much better job coaching the other two up.
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Old 03.12.2012, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Gengar View Post
What happens if Kolb comes back and looks like a starting level QB? Does the poor season just get put down to injuries? I'm no Whiz fan but it's not his fault he's got no tackles, poor running backs and no starting QB. He could've done a much better job coaching the other two up.
You have to remember that Kolb was designated the backup by Whiz
Skelton was the guy he gave the starting job to. Thats the same Skelton who has been benched for Lindley....whats that say about Whizs talent evaluation process?
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Old 03.12.2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Gengar View Post
What happens if Kolb comes back and looks like a starting level QB? Does the poor season just get put down to injuries? I'm no Whiz fan but it's not his fault he's got no tackles, poor running backs and no starting QB. He could've done a much better job coaching the other two up.
I am completely behind Whiz. I dont understand the calls for his head at all.

But this has been a trying year. The stomach churning denial of O line incompetency in the draft, by ignoring the best guard in the draft, and taking a headcase at WR instead, which still angers me. To the head scrathingly bad decision to pick Skelton ahead of kolb in Game 1.

BUT

It isnt like he isnt as much responsible for the best D the Cards have had in living memory, as much as the worst Offense in memory. And it isnt like picking a Qb is just a simple job of going on the QB.COM website, and picking from the list on there. Ask Miami how it has been since Marino retired. Ask the Jets why they traded up to get Sanchez.
While I was strictly in the Orton camp before the Cards traded for Kolb. You have to see thathat the Front Office were doing their utmost to try to get a competent QB.

The Carinals fortunes were always going to rest on the O line at least being OK. They have rarely got there, although Massie's experience is beginning to bear fruit. And as has been said many times, a team losing its starting LT, RT, RG and now the starting Centre, along with the #1 and #2 running backs, is always going to struggle.

I give Whiz one more year to get it right. this year has been horrible, but IMO I can see why.
Some people were excited about Lindley being picked. Probably the same people screaming for the coaches head as another pass sails Skelton-like 10 yards wide of Fitz.

It is horrible watching the cards right now. But I can see the shoots of a decent team. And I have to say that is down to Whiz. Floyd aside which was the worst pick since Buster Davis. I think Whiz has assembled a team on the cusp. Having a bad o line all go down, so even worse guys are blocking for sub standard QBs, is not what anyone wanted. But I still have the belief that the guy to sort it out is Whiz.

About the only concession I make to the guys calling for heads, is Miller (Who is gone for sure) and Russ Grimm.
I loved Grimm as a player. But Whiz has got to see that the O line needs a proper coach. not just a fella who was good playing on a good O line 30 years ago.
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Old 03.12.2012, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Northern Soul View Post
I am completely behind Whiz. I dont understand the calls for his head at all.

But this has been a trying year. The stomach churning denial of O line incompetency in the draft, by ignoring the best guard in the draft, and taking a headcase at WR instead, which still angers me. To the head scrathingly bad decision to pick Skelton ahead of kolb in Game 1.

BUT

It isnt like he isnt as much responsible for the best D the Cards have had in living memory, as much as the worst Offense in memory. And it isnt like picking a Qb is just a simple job of going on the QB.COM website, and picking from the list on there. Ask Miami how it has been since Marino retired. Ask the Jets why they traded up to get Sanchez.
While I was strictly in the Orton camp before the Cards traded for Kolb. You have to see thathat the Front Office were doing their utmost to try to get a competent QB.

The Carinals fortunes were always going to rest on the O line at least being OK. They have rarely got there, although Massie's experience is beginning to bear fruit. And as has been said many times, a team losing its starting LT, RT, RG and now the starting Centre, along with the #1 and #2 running backs, is always going to struggle.

I give Whiz one more year to get it right. this year has been horrible, but IMO I can see why.
Some people were excited about Lindley being picked. Probably the same people screaming for the coaches head as another pass sails Skelton-like 10 yards wide of Fitz.

It is horrible watching the cards right now. But I can see the shoots of a decent team. And I have to say that is down to Whiz. Floyd aside which was the worst pick since Buster Davis. I think Whiz has assembled a team on the cusp. Having a bad o line all go down, so even worse guys are blocking for sub standard QBs, is not what anyone wanted. But I still have the belief that the guy to sort it out is Whiz.

About the only concession I make to the guys calling for heads, is Miller (Who is gone for sure) and Russ Grimm.
I loved Grimm as a player. But Whiz has got to see that the O line needs a proper coach. not just a fella who was good playing on a good O line 30 years ago.
Whilst what you say mostly makes a lot of sense, and we do have the making of a good team in a lot of areas, the vast majority of the time, how successful you are is going to be determined by what you can get from your QB and how you protect that QB.

Unfortunately for Whiz and Co., they have proven time and time again that they have little idea of what to look for in a QB, and what to do with them once they have them, how best to make them productive with their skillset, round peg, square hole anyone? No QB has joined this franchise in the whiz era and improved as a player, none. There are of course, as you say, no guarantees in finding the right guy behind center, but after 9 Qbs starting in the last 3 seasons, I have seen enough of the failed attempts by Whiz and the talent evaluators. I mean, does it not tell you that he really has no idea what he is doing with a QB when our starting QB for the year is now our 3rd string QB, somehow, behind Lindley who has been awful even for a rookie.

Again, you are right, injuries have really hurt this team, however, on the back of these injuries, I fail to see Whiz really attempting to alter his game plan to perhaps help these inexperienced, poorer players out, he simply rehashes the same thing week after week, watching it fail again and again.

The blind ignorance when it comes to ignoring the OL is now beyond a joke. There were signs that this team were nearly there at the back end of last year with the defense, and plenty of offensive weapons, yet we ignore the OL completely, a key area that would have improved us greatly. The man, if he cant see this, deserves to be fired, for that alone. Its clear what needs to be done too drastically improve the fortunes of this team. Draft some OL, high, then develop a QB behind them, be that Kolb or whoever.

You are right, this franchise is on the cusp, now lets not waste this chance and get someone in who get this franchise moving forward.

Also, if he really believe his, "We are starting Lindley to win now" comment, he is crazy. Skelton has been real poor this year, but not in the same league of poor as Lindley has been these last 3 games. I have no doubt in my mind that had Skelton still been playing and not Lindley we would be sat at 7-5 now having won the last 3 games.

Last edited by b182dammit; 03.12.2012 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 03.12.2012, 03:36 PM
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I never bother with anything a coach says to the media. Certainly not just after a game. It is all a load of baloney, even when you agree with what they are saying.

I go back 2 weeks when I look to see if Whiz can change his game plan. He pulled Skelton after about 8 horrible throws. Last week he was hauled over the coals by Cards fans for replacing a Qb too quickly. This week EXACTLY the same people are hauling him over the coals for not acting at all. I find it baffling. To use an Americanism. He is 'hated' for acting, now he is hated for not acting. He'd have been hated for acting too soon or too late whatever he had done yesterday.

I do though agree that I thought he should have put Skelton in at some point in the 3rd quarter. But even when I was thinking that I was also thinking, what can Skelton do? I guess the coaches have seen his reaction to being benched, and don't think bringing him back is a good idea. Ever if they werent going to do it after Lindley's horror show.

I totally concede that the reason the Cards have Skelton and Lindley, and they had Max Hall is because the Front Office drafted 3 pretty dreadful QBs. And they had the awful Derek Anderson as they looked to react to losing Warner, and avoiding going with Leinart. That is a terrible terrible group of players there. BUT about the only chance the Cards had to get anyone else, other than in the draft, was to go for Orton. You may remember I was hoping Orton came ahead of Kolb. But looking at the O line play. Who knows. Orton could have missed more games than Kolb.

I still think there is an outside chance Kolb does OK with a run in the team, and somebody blocking occasionally.

If the Cards did ditch Whiz. I would expect at least 3 years waiting for the new guy to earn the hate of Cards fans while searching for the answer. I believe sticking with Whiz, could see the Cards in a position to challenge with one of the top college Left tackles on the line, being backed up by Potter (Who would probably start the first few games). And with a hopefully healthy Kolb, there is good reason to hope the Cards can go back to something like the 4-0 team that started the season. Rather than the injury hit mess that has evolved.

And if they did ditch him. Who would they get? The baord sweem to want Horton, who has never been a Head Coach. While I dont want to lose him, I dont think he is as 'hot' a prospect as many people seem to. I think that he is still in Arizona whether Whiz goes or not. I just dont think he is experienced enough to be a HC yet.

Last edited by Northern Soul; 03.12.2012 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 03.12.2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Northern Soul View Post
I go back 2 weeks when I look to see if Whiz can change his game plan. He pulled Skelton after about 8 horrible throws. Last week he was hauled over the coals by Cards fans for replacing a Qb too quickly. This week EXACTLY the same people are hauling him over the coals for not acting at all. I find it baffling. To use an Americanism. He is 'hated' for acting, now he is hated for not acting. He'd have been hated for acting too soon or too late whatever he had done yesterday.
That is not a different plan, the plan remained the same, the personnel changed. In fact, that is the problem, different personnel require a different plan, especially at QB, and whiz does not seem to get this. We run the same things regardless of who is in there, be it Kurt Warner or Ryan Lindley. It will never work, but he cant grasp that. He thinks because it did work with Warner, it will work again...No, no it wont.

Lindley clearly is not ready, and Whiz made the change without much thought I believe, because he was angry in the moment against the Falcons and now he cant really go back on it.

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I do though agree that I thought he should have put Skelton in at some point in the 3rd quarter. But even when I was thinking that I was also thinking, what can Skelton do? I guess the coaches have seen his reaction to being benched, and don't think bringing him back is a good idea. Ever if they werent going to do it after Lindley's horror show.
That could be something to do with it, Skelton didn't really take the benching too well, and certainly does not seem keen on helping Lindley out. That said if he is really practicing what he preaches and people are being held accountable, we are trying to win now, it was clear Skelton gave us the best chance to do it.

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Originally Posted by Northern Soul View Post
I totally concede that the reason the Cards have Skelton and Lindley, and they had Max Hall is because the Front Office drafted 3 pretty dreadful QBs. And they had the awful Derek Anderson as they looked to react to losing Warner, and avoiding going with Leinart. That is a terrible terrible group of players there. BUT about the only chance the Cards had to get anyone else, other than in the draft, was to go for Orton. You may remember I was hoping Orton came ahead of Kolb. But looking at the O line play. Who knows. Orton could have missed more games than Kolb.
There were other ways we could have gone, Hasselback, Orton as you say, or drafted a guy. We never, we went into 3 seasons with awful QBs, behind an awful line. Once, you can let that slide, but its the same thing 3 years in a row, with no gradual improvement, no real signs that they are really willing to act to rectify the problem. I dont want to sit around and hope they eventually see the light and sort it out.

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I still think there is an outside chance Kolb does OK with a run in the team, and somebody blocking occasionally.
Kolb looked good this year, I was very impressed, and I think he could do ok, and thats why I said the key is sorting the line out first, before we think of what to do at QB. I do however think Kolbs time is up at the end of the year, he wont be a Cardinal next year, he is simply injured far too often. It is a shame, because his play had me a little bit excited at the start of the year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Soul View Post
If the Cards did ditch Whiz. I would expect at least 3 years waiting for the new guy to earn the hate of Cards fans while searching for the answer. I believe sticking with Whiz, could see the Cards in a position to challenge with one of the top college Left tackles on the line, being backed up by Potter (Who would probably start the first few games). And with a hopefully healthy Kolb, there is good reason to hope the Cards can go back to something like the 4-0 team that started the season. Rather than the injury hit mess that has evolved.

And if they did ditch him. Who would they get? The baord sweem to want Horton, who has never been a Head Coach. While I dont want to lose him, I dont think he is as 'hot' a prospect as many people seem to. I think that he is still in Arizona whether Whiz goes or not. I just dont think he is experienced enough to be a HC yet.
What you say right there, I am all for it, if we could keep whiz, have continuation, but seriously look at sorting the line out, getting some new coaches for the offensive side of the ball, I am all for it, Id be delighted. My concern though is that you could have said exactly the same 3 years ago, exactly, but nothing has changed, none of that has been done, it could have been sorted already. Would you really go into the draft confident with Whiz coaching and Graves having his say that we go OL in the 1st round, even the 1st 3 rounds? I worry, based on previous, they wont, and its another year wasted.

I agree with you on Horton, I am not sure he is ready for the jump, he should stick to what he is good at for now. honestly I do not know who we go with, I just know we cant continue to keep making these same mistakes week after week, year after year.
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